Gun Basher’s Manifesto: The Issues with Gun Bashing (from my personal experience).

fallout 2 - Gun Basher's Manifesto: The Issues with Gun Bashing (from my personal experience).

Howdy there, y'all. A few weeks ago, I had made a character build designed around trying to maximize the damage out of my gun bashes, mostly as joke, but also as an experiment to see why gun bashing isn't good and for reasons why. This is posted in advance so that the issues can be possible addressed in future patches or to be used in consideration with the One Wasteland balance overhaul.

Stuff that Effects Gun Bashing

  • Higher Strength gives higher bash damage
    • This is rough for rifleman builds that would like to use gun bashing without investing heavily into the strength tree. With how special stat synergies work, the best weapons would be shotguns and heavy weapons since they would already require high strength through their perk cards.
  • Basher Perk
    • Overall very disappointing perk card. The damage boost is nice but the cripple chance is abysmal. Being able to run Basher on a build with the intention of more reliably crippling melee enemies would be nice.
  • Weapon mods such as Bayonets and Bruising stocks
  • Armor penetration effects (Such as Tank Killer, Armor Pen Magazines, and the Anti-Armor legendary effect)
    • With no built in penetration, you would have to rely on these effects to get the most out of your gun bashes, which leaves weapons without easily-accessible armor pen (IE Shotguns or Pistols) behind over rifles and heavy weapons with their perk cards and modifications.
  • 40% Bash Damage legendary effect
  • Armor mods such as Aerodynamic and Optimized Bracers do actually reduce the AP Cost of a gun bash from 20 AP to 10 AP. Stacking two of these did not seem to reduce the effect any further.

Stuff that Does Not Effect Gun Bashing / Issues With Gun Bashing

  • The biggest issue IMO is the lack of scaling. A Level 1 hunting rifle is going to deal the same amount of bash damage as a Level 50 one. This means that no matter how much you invest into increasing the gun's bash damage, you'll still only be modifying that base 6 (for example) damage.
    • Going off of this point, with most weapons having the same base bash damage, it ruins the use of gun bashing for weapons that don't have the mods to use. A Missile Launcher, which only has the large bayonet mod, will deal much less damage than a handmade rifle that has both a large bayonet and a bruising stock. For heavy guns without that many mods available (Gatling Gun and Missile Launcher), they should at least have higher base damages to compensate.
    • I have noticed that early on, my hunting rifle was out damaging my pipe rifle (both with their equivalent) in gun bashes which means that certain weapons already have different base bash damages (or the pipe rifle mods don't give as much of a bonus to bash damage )
  • Certain perk cards such as Adrenaline and Bloody Mess do not actually affect the damage of a gun bash.
    • That's a massive 15% to 75% damage increase loss for really no inherent reason. From my testing, Psycho did seem to work.
  • Gunsmith's weapon durability does not affect the durability drain from a gun bash.
    • This really hurts on a weapon such as the shredder minigun, which has the best DPS for pure gun bashing if it didn't break in 22 seconds flat from 200% durability (exaggeration).
    • Then again, being able to deal more damage and having to gun bash less often would also help the durability drain.
  • Certain legendary effects just do not work with gun bashing.
    • Effects such as Bloodied and Junkies do not provide their damage buff to their gun bashes.
    • The enemy-specific effects (such as Troubleshooter's and Zealot's) also do not provide additional damage to their specific enemy type when gun bashing.
    • Other Effects I didn't have the chance to test out:
      • Vampire's for Health Regen while Gun Bashing
      • Instigating for 2x damage while Gun Bashing someone at full health.
      • Furious for the increased damage on additional bashes
      • Noticed no notable difference in damage taken when using a Suppressor's weapon and gun bashing.
      • Mutant's
      • The only one that seemingly has any effect would be Anti-Armor.
  • You cannot gun bash while sprinting.
    • With the mental idea of rushing down an enemy and stabbing them with the end of your bayonet, it hurts that you are unable to gun bash while sprinting as it only adds a degree of clunkiness to this already clunky mechanic.
    • Also being able to act quicker after a gun bash (less end lag using Fighting Game terminology) would be nice as well to prevent you from being a sitting duck after you gun bash.

Legendary Perk Card

  • With Legendary Perk cards on the horizon, I would like to give my own ideas on how a card could be added to help gun bashing. Ideas such as:
    • Just straight up more damage
    • Better Cripple chance or better staggering if they want gun bashing to be more of a crowd control effect.
    • More built-in Armor Pen to help weapons that can't get armor pen through perk cards or mods.
    • The most interesting idea I had would be to add in Fallout 4's Basher Perk critting.
      • This would open up the door for gun bashes to use chems such as Overdrive for even more damage on their gun bashing crits.

Final Thoughts

At the end of the day, I may just be someone who committed a bit too hard to what started out as a joke (BASH GANG!), but I do believe there's some fixes that could be done to help gun bashing not feel entirely as a joke. With everything available in the game to increase the damage, from perk cards to weapon mods to legendary effects, it's a shame that even when you fully invest in gun bashing, you're still just not getting much out of it. I do not believe gun bashing should or could be a replacement for melee weapons (since if you're only bashing, you're missing out on the other half of the phrase "gun bashing"). While I was seeing good results against low to mid leveled enemies, it really started to fall off once I was fighting high HP and resistance enemies such as Yao Guais, Wendigos, Radscorpions, etc. Attached as well is a pastebin full of my loose thoughts and ideas that I did not want to add to lengthen this post more than it had to be. https://pastebin.com/HNZCrNSU

So please, Bethesda, take the chance on a naive young guy from Appalachia with stars in his eyes and a bayonet at the end of his gun. And if nothing else, please add a bayonet to the lever action rifle.


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