Heroes of the Storm

Balance issues Dva regaining her mech. Also Dva is a lot like Murky?

HeroesoftheStorm 1 - Balance issues Dva regaining her mech. Also Dva is a lot like Murky?

Hey I posted on the official hots forums but I know that not everyone follows it and I want to hear more opinions (for better or worse).

Before I start I just want to lay out my background

I'm a scrub who only plays quickmatch and aram, I also mostly play Artanis, Raynor, and Alexstrasza. I've only played a few games in Dva post rework (don't want to wait for a match, see what game modes I play to see my mentality around waiting) so my opinions on Dva might be bad or I might be missing something but I still want to share them (What's the point of opinions if you don't share them amirite).

As balance is a huge topic I'll be focusing on one specific area of her kit that being her remeching ability

Here's an some basic information about the problem:

When Dva was reworked Blizzard made it so that her mech functions much more like a full hero by itself, IMO the mech doesn't function as well as a full hero, but it's much stronger than for a lack of a better example a Mishaless Rexxar or Olaf (who is also worth 0.5 of a kill). Therefor her ability to remech quickly and return to the fight is big a strength of her kit which is fine (every hero needs something right?), however I believe that in her current iteration her ability to remech *without endangering herself* is too strong.

What the ease of her remeching results in is that killing Dva's mech provides a much smaller reward for the amount off effort you have to put in compared to other heroes, and is very much similar to the effort and reward of killing fat Murky (Murky with the level 20 talent **Big Tuna Kahuna** that doubles his health).

*Explanation of the strength of Dva's mech using level 1 numbers for simplicity

Dva has 2250 HP vs fat murkies 1460 (730 base but doubled when fat), fat Murky has faster regen and can talent into a movespeed invincibility bubble and while boosters cannot provide invincibility it can be talented to provide a shield (**In For The Kill**). With fat Murky and Dva both having 15 sec respawn times (assuming Dva auto attacks in pilot form), and being effective split lanners with good ganking potential. Dva and Murky also both have "eggs" that when destroyed raise their respawn times. (its Dva's pilot form rather than a literal egg just to be clear). This ties into the rewards for killing fat Murky or Dva's mech being rather low for the effort it takes (0.25 or 0.5 of a kill respectively). This hopefully shows the similarities between Dva and murky, however you've probably noticed the big difference between the two. Which is that Dva's mech starts out as as nearly a full hero while murky has to wait until level 20 to get to similar power levels as Dva.

To show that Dva's mech has similar amounts of power to other bruisers I'll be comparing its stats to Artanis, Sonya, and Xul. These heroes are all strong in solo laning and can gank (obviously Xul has some problems ganking but he can do it). Here's an admittedly shallow comparison:

– 2250 HP Dva vs 2525 Artanis vs 2450 Sonya vs 2080 Xul

– 92/138 AA DPS DVa vs 111 Artanis vs 105 Sonya vs 114 Xul

– All of them have gap closers, boosters vs q+swap vs spear vs root however Dva's boosters can be used as a gap closer and or an escape without any talents while against multiple opponents, Artanis can generally only use his q+e combo as an engage except in somewhat rare circumstances where an enemy is behind him, Sonya must talent into her spear in order to use it as an escape and Xul's root can only target a single opponent and is delayed

– All of them can have good sustain however this is one area where Artanis, Sonya, and Xul have a decent advantage against Dva where Artanis is pretty much invincible in a 1v1 against many heroes, and if the enemy team chooses to all clump up around Sonya and Xul they can heal a huge amount

Hopefully this shows how Dva's mech has a similar amount of power to other bruisers that count for a full kill. And while the other bruisers mentioned have better sustain, their large sustain is also heavily dependent on the enemy team (Artanis can be slowed/rooted, Sonya needs multiple targets close together and is vulnerable to silences, Xul needs to be against a melee heavy comp or very dumb ranged heroes) while Dva can use **Liquid Cooling** to heal abit at a slower rate regardless of what the enemy does (2% per second for 20 seconds).

I do want to emphasize that her ability to remech into a strong platform isn't inherently a problem by itself (as I said before heroes need a strength) but her ability to do so quickly while remaining safe from retaliation is.

Let me explain how her remeching works and its problems:

Dva currently has a 45 second cooldown to call down another mech when she looses her previous one (Misha has a 35 ish second respawn time in the lategame to add some context). she can reduce the cooldown by autoing and hitting heroes with her laser ability. Her autos reduce the mech cooldown by 0.5 per attack and she attacks at a rate of 4 per second (effective CDR of 2 per sec) and her laser that reduces her mech cooldown by 5 sec with a 6 second cooldown (every 6 sec reduce cooldown by 5*number of heroes hit).

The base 45 seconds for her to regain her mech seems to be a reasonable amount of time, but if she constantly lasers she can reduce that number to around 24 seconds as long she hits one hero with her laser whenever it comes off cooldown (she reduces the cooldown to 15 seconds if she hits 2 heroes every time). This comes with the assumption that she starts using the laser as soon as she pops out which would only be possible if she died while running from DoT or if the enemy doesn't try to punish her for whatever reason, but aren't too far off from what would happen in a live game.


This is a noticeably quicker respawn than normal as she doesn't need to walk back in addition to any respawn time in the early game (it normally takes 12 sec to travel to friendly mid gate while mounted from spawn on Cursed Hollow for a total of 27 ish second respawn at level 1). This becomes an even larger problem in the late game when the respawn timer ramps up to 65 sec giving her a comparatively quick "respawn" time.

This means the only real way to remove Dva from a conflict (teamfight or lane) is to kill her "egg" but if you can't kill her right as she demechs because she's saved by her teammates (they're also warned that she is about the become vulnerable and can peel for her) or whatever other reason and manages to escape. She is then allowed to go and hit people with her laser with little fear of retaliation as her laser has around 11 or 12ish range (it seems to be a bit higher than double her auto attack range of 5.5) and slows those hit by 25% for 1.5 seconds which further helps her avoid retaliation.

She can also regain her mech quickly even if she can't hit any heroes with her laser for whatever reason, as her auto attacks reduce the cooldown of her mech to as little as 15 seconds even on non heroic targets. that's excluding any bonus cooldown reduction from **Pro Moves** which can reduce the cooldown of her mech while auto attacking heroes to just over 6 seconds. The cooldown reduction from her auto attacks can still be combined with hitting heroes with her laser which she can do so safely with the long range that comes with her laser.

What this means is that if Dva isn't killed as soon as she demechs then you aren't generaly going to be able to stop her from remeching quickly and rejoining team fight/lane and negating all of your work.

IMO this is best shown by the winrate of her level 13 talent **Good To Go** which makes killing her when she demechs even harder and has a 69.7% winrate (nice.) with a popularity of 50.4% as of this posting when you filter for ranked platinum and above (using heroes profile). The winrate of this talent hopefully proves how important it is to kill baby Dva before she can remech and the effect that making it harder to do so does.

My proposed solutions for this issue is to make Dva take more risks if she wants to regain her mech quickly, so that Dva's can regain their mech quickly if they expose themselves but playing safe and ensuring that you deny the enemy the other 0.5 kill would mean you're suck as 0.5 of a character for a while. I'm not a game designer so I'll just put out some example solutions that I quickly thought up that may or may not be to harsh if combined together:

– Reducing the cooldown reduction on her autoattacks by half normally to 0.25 seconds per auto attack and doubling it against heroes, to encourage her to take more risks to reduce the cooldown on her mech faster.

– Reducing the cooldown reduction of her laser by 2 seconds (to 3 per hero) which would increase the time it would take for her to regain her mech from a safe range to 30 seconds (assuming only one hero hit per shot and it being used as soon as it comes of cooldown).

– Maybe also nerfing or removing the slow on her laser (not sure about this one but it would help chasing her down)

– Increasing the time to regain her mech depending on the length of the game, so the advantage she gets in quicker "respawn" times isn't so large.

If these changes where implemented the extra CDR from **Pro Moves** might have to be looked at though (*shrug*) and she would still be able to somewhat freely regain her mech against teams without decently ranged roots or stuns if she takes **Good To Go**. (it might still be op might not but everyone needs somewhere where they shine right?)

Another way of solving the issue would be to nerf her mech rather than her remech ability which would make her quick and safe remechs less problematic as her team doesn't gain as much from her being in her mech as before. By for example (each suggestion is independent but can be combined):

– Reducing the hitpoints of the mech

– Reducing the damage she does

– Nerfing her boosters by reducing the duration or speed

– You know general nerfs to stuff

– Increasing the kill reward of the mech to 0.75 kills

While this may work I personally think Dva players would riot from these changes (more than just normal nerfs) as the rework was focused on making her mech more of a full hero and taking that away seems a bit mean. (though the increase in the kill reward maybe wouldn't be so bad)

Well these are my thoughts on this specific part of Dva's kit and the problems I see with it, I'm curious what others think of her in her current state and if my analysis fine or did I miss some massive area while writing this.

Extra analysis:

**Target Locked** the second "best" talent in the same tier as **Good To Go** and has 68.3% win rate but only 18.9% pick rate, and doesn't improve her survivablity in pilot form though it still makes her mech stronger which is part of the problem of her remeching quickly (I wish all the evidence was on my side firmly though 🙁 ). While **Pew! Pew! Pew!**'s win rate is lower than **Target Locked** and **Good To Go** in all ranked leagues silver and above but has a higher win rate in bronze and quick match. IMO this is because as I've established before the most important part of Dva is surviving being demeched or making sure that you aren't demeched in the first place. Which **Pew! Pew! Pew!** having a better win rate in bronze rank or quick match where people are less likely to coordinate a punish for her demeching or in quick match if the matchmaker isn't in your favor not have a way to punish her at all. And therefor you can make use of the extra CDR from your laser to remech faster.

I'm also not sure if I used the right flare but I'm sure that wont be a problem right mods?

Source: Original link

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