Heroes of the Storm

Blizz, can you please buff or change the functionality of Varian’s twinblades upgrade, Frenzy?

HeroesoftheStorm 1 - Blizz, can you please buff or change the functionality of Varian's twinblades upgrade, Frenzy?

TL;DR, varian's level 20 upgrade falls short of the "epic, game-breaking" status that blizzard wants level 20 talents to be, so a different functionality or a buff might be nice.

It was mentioned in the patch notes an hour ago: We like the powerful, game-breaking feeling that Extra Oomph provides at Level 20 (the dream is that all talents at this stage of the game can feel just as epic), so we’re going to hold off on nerfing it until we see how this change pans out.

Varian's Frenzy upgrade at level 20: Increases varian's attack speed by 7.5% and movespeed by 7.6%

(It reads as 15% and 10%, but due to twinblade varian's unique higher base numbers, and due to to the buffs being additive rather than multiplicative, it effectively only gives 7.5% attack speed and 7.6% movespeed)

Compare that to Qhira's level 1 talent finishing touch (a talent that is outclassed by Qhira's other level 1 talents):

Gain 30% attack damage and 35% attack speed when attacking heroes below half hp, otherwise gain 15% attack damage.

Compare that to Gazlowe's level 20 mecha lord:

Permanent 25 armour. Permanent 100% attack damage.

There is honestly nothing epic about varian's Frenzy upgrade. I know that the upgrade synergises with HKQ and second wind a little (every 14 hits you gain 1% extra hp from second wind) and interacts with heroic strike (which is basically a part of his auto attack damage). Talent synergies are there for every talent that increases attackspeed/damage in every hero, pointing that out doesn't help.

I would like that talent to be buffed. But honestly, knowing blizzard, the buffs will be conservative. Blizzard isn't going to suddenly double the numbers on a level 20 talent.

And the funny thing is, even if you double the numbers on the Frenzy upgrade, it would still be outclassed by Qhira's level 1 talent (that is also outclassed by her other level 1 talents).

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It would take like six buffs to get Frenzy to a point where it is an "epic, gamebreaking" level 20 upgrade, by which point it would read "Varian gains an additional 100% attack speed and 10% movespeed" (which would effectively give him 50% attack speed and 7.6% attack speed).


I know there is no way in reality blizzard would multiply the numbers on a storm tier talent by more than ten times. Blizz may read this thread, take the feedback in, and next patch, varian gets a buff to the Frenzy talent by having its power doubled (even that would be optimistic I think) and it would still be worse than Qhira's level 1 talent and still vying for the spot of worst level 20 in the game.

Btw this problem is also made worse because Frenzy competes with varian's banner upgrade at 20. The banner talent (glory to the alliance) I think qualifies as an "epic" level 20 upgrade. Banner of dalaran gives varian more damage than the Frenzy upgrade anyway so if you want damage, picking the banner upgrade at 20 is the right choice. So unless the game is already won or the player is trolling, there is no reason to ever go Frenzy.

I also know:

  1. Everyone hates twinblade varian, so any suggestion to buff him would be unwelcome (let's be real this thread probably isn't going to get more than 10 upvotes)
  2. Everyone thinks twinblade varian is a braindead rightclick and go afk hero so any suggestion to buff that aspect would be unwelcome (I wish twinblade varian had more actives too)

So while I would welcome a buff, since a buff would probably be highly unwelcome by the community, and since any kind of buff would probably heavily fall short of the kind of sheer numbers required to make it an "epic, game-breaking" or even viable level 20 talent anyway, perhaps it might be better to just change the functionality of the Frenzy upgrade completely? Make the third hit of twinblades cleave like in his attack animation? Give him a new active?

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I don't know. I do agree with blizzard's philosophy that level 20 talents should be epic and game-breaking but I don't know how it can be done with twinblades. Anyway I already made a similar post on the general discussion forums but I thought I'd make one here too for greater visibility. I mentioned after the previous patch I'd stop playing as much as I didn't like the direction of the varian changes but I hope to hop right back in again one day. Thanks.

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