The Elder Scrolls

Thresholds for using Shrouded Daggers as a spammable with Vateshran DW weapons.

TheElderScrolls14 - Thresholds for using Shrouded Daggers as a spammable with Vateshran DW weapons.
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Hello all,

I found myself in a bit of a conundrum last week because my Stamcro needed to be running War Machine, and because of the configuration of pieces I had available to me the only option I had was to run 5 Body for one set/2 body and 3 jewel for another set/Vateshran DW for the front bar weapons. It became clear to me VERY quickly that with the weapons Shrouded Daggers is an incredibly strong ability, but I found very little hard data on when it became worth using over other spammables. After doing some practice parses with it, I decided I wanted to actually find that data myself. I'm sharing this here mainly in case someone in the future is trying to figure out the same thing – hopefully, it helps someone else out!

For anyone who doesn't know, this is the text of the set:

(2 items) Adds 666 Weapon Critical, Hidden Blade deals up to 250% more damage to targets under 100% Health when you are standing behind them. Restores 1890 Stamina if the target was below 50% Health.

And then this is the prefered DPS Morph for Hidden Blade, Shrouded Daggers:

Fire a secret dagger from your sleeve that bounces up to 3 times to nearby enemies, dealing 1204 Physical Damage per hit. If enemies hit are casting they are interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 3 seconds. You also gain Major Brutality, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20% for 20 seconds.

To do this, I ran three damage tests on a 3mill dummy (the 3mill was chosen to save time – each damage test took between 20-30 minutes to do*). For the damage tests, I used just the one ability over and over until the dummy died, and recorded each attack in a spreadsheet along with the dummy's health threshold (and yes, I know Combat Metrics probably would have made this a lot easier – this is the absolute pain of playing on console). The three damage tests can be found here:
edit?usp=sharing - Thresholds for using Shrouded Daggers as a spammable with Vateshran DW weapons.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Er2F0qIwNX9T6Q6JCrHZz7H6f2Ip3JOW5Xo4uLFg3Q8/edit?usp=sharing

The tests were done with the following stats: 31575 Stamina, 4048 Weapon, and 54.70% weapon crit, along with the Shadow Mundus. I used Essence of Weapon Damage potions throughout the test for both Blastbones and Venom Skull because Shrouded Daggers gives Major Brutality and so the buff needed to be up for the other tests too. My bars for all three tests were Shrouded Daggers/Stalking Blastbones/Venom Skull/Detonating Siphon/Camouflaged Hunter/Flawless Dawnbreaker, which also meant that I had 30% extra crit below 25%.

I chose Venom Skull as the spammable to test rather than something like Rapid Strikes because it is only a single unit of damage and my brain can't calculate all five hits of Rapid Strikes fast enough to track it. Venom Skull is a good stand-in for other class spammables – though it's worth noting things like Warden's Cutting Dive will do somewhat more damage than it during Off Balance procs- but all spammables have around the same base damage, so Venom Skull's performance can be generally applied to other classes. Rapid Strikes does seem to have slightly higher base damage than Venom Skull based on its tooltip, but I think you can still use the general findings of these tests with it. As a bonus, I also tested Stalking Blastbones – this is less applicable to other Stamina classes, but I wanted to see when it was worth eschewing casting Blastbones in favor of pure Shrouded Daggers spam.

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My findings, as you can see in the spreadsheet, is that Shrouded Daggers started to overtake Venom Skull as soon as 80%.

https://preview.redd.it/0le7wrlktu361.jpg?width=1042&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57ff8f444fbdff64af0d757d04e4cdc16d351a4a

This means that below 80%, Shrouded Daggers is actually your main spammable in your rotation. For Blastbones, Shrouded Dagger started to overtake it at 40%, which means that you can basically begin your "Execute" rotation sub 40%. (My own best results so far have been to drop Blastbones at 40% for any purpose but to provide a corpse for Detonating Siphon, and then drop both Blastbones and Siphons entirely at 25%. This resulted in a 82.5k parse using Aegis Caller/Relequens/vVH Daggers, and I'd imagine someone who is a bit more talented than I am/actually 810CP could probably push it higher.) I am not sure how useful the Blastbones info is for other classes, but I think other classes could benefit from the spammable comparison.

My big takeaway is that, given the 80% health threshold for when Shrouded Daggers starts being usable as a spammable, I believe that if you're good at making sure you're always attacking from behind enemy mobs, you can drop your other spammable entirely for dungeons, as trash add health tends to drop below 80% very quickly. I would still use a second spammable for things like vet Hard Mode trials where pre-80% is a substantial period of time, but I think you're safe to use just Shrouded Daggers in things like Vet Dungeons (remember, not only does it outdamage your normal spammable at around 80% AND function as an execute with the vVH weapons, but it also is an Interrupt, a cleave ability AND CLEAVE EXECUTE!>, and a source of Major Brutality if you don't want to run Essence of Weapon Damage potions). The only real problem with doing so is that it's really painful on your sustain until 50%, but freeing up my other spammable slot means that I can slot Consuming Trap, which I previous had not had space on my bars to do.

On a final note, I don't actually know if these weapons have enough potential to overcome a meta setup like Relequen/AY (though my highest parse running a meta setup on my Stamcro was 81.5k, and with them has been 84k, but that could be attributed to a number of factors – not least of which is that I've spent a lot of time practicing this setup), but I think they're good enough to be considered an option…and I think that given all the utility they offer, they're actually one of the better options for Vet dungeons.

This was a lot of information, and is probably not applicable to like 99.5% of the subreddit, but I hope someone googling in the future is benefited by it. If you made it all the way to the end, thank you!

*Like, a lot of time. Who knew that it takes 252 Venom Skull casts to kill at 3mill DPS dummy? Had I known that pre-starting this project, I might not have followed through.

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