War Thunder

The Results of Bad Implementation (Jet Air RB in 1.87)

warthunder 3 - The Results of Bad Implementation (Jet Air RB in 1.87)
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Intro

Hello everyone, I decided after the surprisingly positive feedback I got from the last long form post I made that it would be worthwhile to make another one geared towards jets. Especially since I’ve seen a massive number of posts on the sub since the patch went live on this topic.

So, what will this post be about? Like the last one, I’m not here to completely chastise people but rather point out the current blatant problems with top tier. And while Gaijin is largely to blame for putting in nearly no effort into making sure their game has some semblance of balanced matchmaking, we also have ourselves to blame (but more on that later).

Some Background

  • I was never interested in top tier or jets generally in the past, I had the F-86F-2 & F-30 unlocked in 2015 but never played either one. Improved .50 cals coupled with several air-spawning clubbing planes made my usual area of play (Rank 3-4 Props) extremely unfun.

  • I ended up migrating to vengefully using the over-performing .50 cals against people at top tier instead thanks to a squadron member who loved top tier himself.

  • Thanks to that, I became pretty invested in and enjoyed playing jets. I racked up a large sum of matches at 7.0-9.0, in every nation. I am not making this post to try and defend some national preference as is super common on this sub, I have nearly every single plane unlocked across the board.

  • I mention these things before I really get into the meat of the post just as insurance. My screen name is also the same as my IGN if you wish to check what I’ve played; My general rule is I never take seriously the opinions of people who haven’t played certain vehicles at least a little, especially people with only 1 tree. So, disclosure: I have never played outside of test flights the T-2K, Venom, Super Mystere, or A5. All the information on the T-2 & Super Meme I will be mentioning are courtesy of friends I trust. I have played nearly everything else including all the other new Axis jets.

As we move along, I will be tackling some of the common topics I’ve seen moderating/participating in the sub. I will largely be discussing some of the more popular good, in-tree planes within each nation first (small summaries and where they fit in pre & post patch) and then move onto more macro topics and some of the less worthwhile planes.


Overlook of “Best” Vehicles

Every single one of the major factional groups has some really excellent and competitive vehicles, but this patch has created a performance gap issue and made certain planes nearly obsolete. There are also the issues of 8.3/8.0 vehicles having to deal with full up tiers to 9.0 and 9.3 as well as the subsonic vs supersonic matchups that are commonplace. While those issues existed in the past, they were just not as severe as they are currently. The list will consider performance, MM, etc.

Let’s look at what we’re working with in general:

Western Allies

  • F-86-F2: The OG. It went through a small period of bad times when the guns were sparky but has not had that problem since 1.79. Vaporizes anything it touches and is still a Sabre, so is flexible in terms of what it can do. Good speed and dive performance and overall maneuverability.
  • F-86-F25: Pretty much the same performance, but in exchange for losing insta-kill ability you get some more staying power and higher ammo count.
  • F-100D: One of the better supersonics and has been improved significantly since 1.87. Very strong against 9.0s and can outmaneuver most of the other 10.0s. Also has a 9.7 BR so will get matches where it only fights 9.0s and 9.3s occasionally. High ammo count, easy to aim, extremely fast, surprisingly nimble.
  • Hunter: Was one of the best 9.0s previously but gets outshined a bit these days. It’s still incredibly good against the Russians, can hang with the F-100 and MiG-19, and kicks G.91Rs and other slow planes around like puppies. The CL-13A was already its nemesis, but it now has the popular G.91Y & CL-13B to deal with, which are both even more threatening for it.
  • Venom?: I know people who love this thing and have done well in it but could be skewed positively due to their skill level. I will take their word for this being a good support plane.
  • F9F-2,5,8: 8.3 BR means you will get down-tiered often (especially thanks to Seahawk spam) and they kick the shit out of stuff at lower BRs as well as hang well with stuff that’s around their own tier compared to many other Allied planes. In an up-tier, they generally get hosed though. My personal pick is the -5.
  • Meteor Mk 8: Great support plane but is slow. Very strong against things like Seahawks, Arados, 262s etc.
  • F-84G: Decent time to play this for once, but it doesn’t always have the air-spawn advantage. Performance is excellent, and every match is 8.0 max. Good at brutally murdering Seahawks.
  • Bar/Ouragan: Same deal as F-84G, but much better dogfighter.

Pasta-Kraut-Sushi Trinity

  • CL-13A&B: The A was always the best Sabre; the B just takes that up to 11. More than half my deaths in it are self-inflicted but if you play it more intelligently than I did, it’s probably the best subsonic in game other than the G91Y, which is comparable. Has a stupidly powerful engine, and A5 style wings.
  • F86-F40: More nimble F series with wingtip extensions and modified slats. Also, can carry AAMs. Takes a small hit to high speed accel and roll rate in exchange for increased maneuverability.
  • G91Y: Unlimited energy, can climb like a supersonic and outmaneuver subsonics, vertical ER is ridiculously good. Poor at very high and very low speeds, but overall is probably the best jet in the game.
  • MiG-19S: Gets an extra gun, no missiles or radar but significantly improved flight performance from the PT.
  • T-2K: Why the fuck was this even added. Chicken-wanged supersonic that has missiles, radar, and an aimbot for people who can’t aim.
  • G91R/1: Tiny Sabre. Good support boye, has a hard time vs very fast 9.0s or supersonics.
  • G91 Pre Serie: 8.3, so extremely favorable MM. Very nimble as well. One of my favorites.
  • F-84G: Same characteristics as the Allied ones, but always gets air-spawns.
  • C2B: 2018 Stat padder’s plane of the year. Still very good.
  • Rocket Planes: Now that they’re grounded (thank god) they aren’t as bullshit but are still annoying to deal with when flown properly. Are Hunter food, but club at their own and lower BRs.
  • R2Y2s: Mediocre jets with a not so mediocre air-spawn. Guns are sparkier than before but still a problematic plane.

Lonely Russia

  • La-200: Chonky ass plane that’s like a Frankenstein version of a Hunter in practice. Can be decent but difficult to use well. Very poor in an uptier.
  • Yak-23: Opposite of La-200, high T/W tiny target that’s very nimble at low speeds.
  • Yak-30: Very good 8.0, among the best. Like a smoother MiG-15 but very little compression.
  • MiG-15bis: High skill curve subsonic with some positive qualities at lower speeds and at altitude but struggles at higher speed significantly.
  • MiG-17: Like the 15bis, but +1 in every category. On paper was the fastest 9.0, but can't really do anything once it's there due to compression.
  • MiG-19PT: Aim-assist was added and helps counteract the shitty rudder but is inferior performance wise to the 19S. Good at killing F-100s and Vautours though.

At a glance, it’s easy to see that the Allies and Russians have the weakest lineup. Keep in mind, these are the best vehicles in each tree. Current MM means that the two inferior factions are almost always matched up against the Axis, causing severe balance issues. There are simply not as many bad Axis planes are there are Allied planes. Best case scenario in a 9.0 match flying the F2 or Hunter is fighting a horde of G91s and MiG-15bises, which does happen, but is usually not the case.

There are also Allied vs USSR matchups, which are more balanced though in that case it’s the Allies with the somewhat superior lineup.


Problematic FMs (aka Muh French Suffering)

3 2 aircraft I want to highlight here: – F9F-8 – Javelin – Super Mystere

All of them have somewhat borked FMs and bizarre AOA characteristics. The Super Mystere was my most anticipated jet, but the result has been incredibly disappointing. It’s to the point my squadron members have been calling it the Super Meme.

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Javelin & F9F-8 on the other hand are improved somewhat from the past and have received AAMs. FM issues persist, and out of the 3 the Cougar is in the best place as it never fights supersonics and can get down-tiered all the way to MiG-9 territory. EDIT: Was told by someone I trust the FM on the Cougar is actually fine, please disregard, my apologies.

France in general has gotten the shortest end of the stick in terms of jets. The Vautour is not something that can usually carry a match, and the other Mysteres are severly lacking vs what they tend to fight. They are also preproduction models with inferior flight characteristics than they could otherwise achieve. Same is true of the Hunter we have in game, though that plane is at least still competitive.

On a less important note, the CLs are both underperforming in game compared to what they were capable of as well. Must be an anti-German conspiracy. /s


Premium Jet Cash Grab

Worst idea of all time for the health of top tier. The addition of these vehicles has been extremely profitable for the company, and tons of people who are completely lost as to how to play at this tier are now populating it. I can’t totally blame people, since the grind is a long one to do it the normal way.

Just a small flavor of what I’ve and I’m sure you’ve also seen: – At least 2-3 people unable to take off – Tons of wing rips even on the 6-3 Sabre – People hitting teammates with AAMs – Entire 7.0-8.0 BR range being filled with idiots in Seahawks – People willing to expend entire ammo loads for 1 potential kill – People grinding in the fucking Meteor Reaper by ground pounding, though this extends to others as well – Vautours bringing down Allied teams in 9.0-10.0 spreads.

I shouldn’t be surprised as spending 50~ dollars is a lot faster than grinding out a whole tree, but the people who bought in skipped all of the experiences that help you build a foundation for flying higher tier planes. This criticism doesn’t extend to veteran players who wanted an SL + RP grinder of course.


Legacy BR and Outdated Vehicles

There is a significant spread of vehicles that are simply not up to scratch thanks to power creep over the years, even at their own BRs.

  • A5
  • FJ-4B
  • MiG-15(& to a less extent the bis)
  • P(F)-80C
  • F2H
  • Meteors & Sea Venom
  • Me262 C1A
  • Mystere 2A/C

Many of these could use a BR shift, including making BRs like 8.7 finally a part of the MM process. 7.7 for some of the more underwhelming 8.0s is also an option.


Idiotic Map Rotation

I have no idea which monkey is trained to throw darts at a picture of topography in terms of map rotation selection at Gaijin, but this is a joke.

Most blatant examples:

  • Tiny WW2 Maps for supersonics
  • Wake Island (Seriously, what the hell)
  • Husky & Britain

This is one of the easiest things to fix out of all of them. I can’t believe that they allow these kinds of absurd maps to even go through the rotation


Muh Aim (Radar-lead)

Radar’s a cool feature, and I’m glad a lot of the planes who had radar sweep historically received it. It doesn’t negatively affect or break the game at lower tiers and makes things like the P-61 more useful in a supportive role for the team.

The issue comes from the lead indicator, in RB. I could see the case for AB or SB, but I don’t like where this is going for the future. I’ve seen on the sub people praising things like the F3D thanks to this feature, but the F3D was already praiseworthy against other 7.0s for anyone who could lead the guns.

I believe this will be the biggest point of disagreement here between me and the sub as whole, but I really feel this was a bad addition and doesn’t improve the game mode. It also gives an advantage to planes that have it vs ones who don’t.


Analysis of Missiles

When 1.85 was dropped, many were concerned about missiles being in the game. Fears were largely unfounded, none of the Missiles broke the game in any way and were just a bonus tool for killing people who were not paying attention or for scaring people into bleeding speed. That functionality was a good one.

Current Problems are: – Some of the lower tier vehicles getting them (ex. Seahawk) – Take skill out of the equation – If you’re a bomber pilot: lol – Warning vs No Warning argument, also negatively effects newer players with lower level crews most. – They will continue to get more effective, meaning extremely shitty gameplay is on the horizon – People derp around trying to get locks at very close ranges instead of just shooting the enemy – G limits are going up as missile tech progresses, meaning counters (flares, chaff,etc) are going to have to come into play at some point.


Gaijin Please, my Incredibly Absurd Request

GaIjUb gIb Insert Mach 2 aircraft here


Stop it. Get some help.

There are indeed some good additions that wouldn’t break the game (Mostly more powerful Allied Subsonics, as that’s where the biggest deficiency lies) as well as T-2 counters but if one more idiot suggests stuff like the Mirage 3, F-14 or MiG-25 I’m going to drown them, take them out of the water, and then drown them again. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with some of you people.

Jokes I’m serious aside part of the issue we have currently is due to the community asking for absurdly difficult to balance vehicles, Gaijin seeing a financial opportunity, adding it, and then realizing “uh oh this was a bad move” and scrambling to fix the imbalance.

Side note: “The F-14 is older than T-2” is quite possibly the stupidest argument I’ve seen in the last 3 months for adding it.


Potential Solutions

Solution 1: Currently, Gaijin decided to just make mirror matches more commonplace because they’re realized their own mistake. Nice band-aid fix, for an incompetent roll-out. I personally don’t like mixed or mirror matches, but I do see the rationale here. An enormous number of people who are also skilled are chasing the new vehicles, further inflating their stats. I've mentioned this before, but people often chase the meta and will spam out whatever is the most imbalanced. Many of these people are actually also pretty skilled, which further skews the numbers. God only knows how bad the Allied W/Rs were over the weekend. I actually started writing this before this mini-patch, so its mostly referring to a non mixed MM.

Solution 2: Often cited reversion to a Warsaw Pact vs NATO MM. This would give the Japanese to the Allies, in exchange for the Russians going to the "Axis". I personally would vouch for this solution, but in fairness this would also skew in NATO's favor somewhat. The only WP supersonics would be the MiG-19s, but I feel that the 9.3 powerhouses could make up for it. It would still be less imbalanced than the current siuation was.

Future additions: Instead of trying to suggest something even more of a bad fit than the T-2, I would encourage people to look at this small list, many of which have already been submitted offically to Gaijin.

  • F-86H
  • MiG-17F (maybe, not a huge improvement tbh)
  • Mystere 4
  • F-84F
  • Etendard 4
  • Super Etendard
  • CAC Sabre
  • F86K
  • Late model Hunters
  • Gnat
  • FJ-3
  • A4
  • Prototype Mirage (Mystere Delta)
  • French Jaguar (I personally don't even think this should be in here, but something needs to counter the T-2 and the 1.3-1.7 mach area might as well get filled) Stick them all at 11.0 and call it a day.
  • SU-7A (Fighter version)
  • SU-17
  • A7 Corsair 2
  • Yak-141
  • F5 Tigger (really unsure on this one)

If you're wondering why I seem to have a French tilt: I don't. It's simply the weakest current tree and why I give it so much focus. I try to give everything some love, but most played stuff is mostly…Axis (pls no pitchforks)


Conclusion

Well there you have it. This is what the state of the game is now thanks it being run by a bunch of incompetents, being fueled father by the constant requests for more and more broken stuff, without ever thinking about what the end results might be. I generally don't get this heated in my posts, but the entire thing has become a circus, and I will be seeing you all in my old home: Rank 4 Props for the forseeable future thanks to all of this.

Please let me know what you think, constructive criticism is always welcome. Any advice I might be able to give I will, or at least refer you to my betters.

Source: Original link


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