War Thunder

Why Allied Teams Lose (Prelude to 1.87)

warthunder 5 - Why Allied Teams Lose (Prelude to 1.87)
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Intro

Hi everyone, I have noticed a massive spike in the numbers of people grinding Japan and the other two Axis nations (Italy, Germany) to get a head start for the new jet toys that are about to drop tomorrow.

While Germany was always extremely popular, Japan was an ironic "sleeping giant" in terms of how much people spammed it, and is now basically present in every single match you play.

This isn't a "git gud" post. This is an observation post from playing almost exclusively Allies or USSR since patch 1.79, with some minor deviations here and there.

I have however spent most of my time playing things like the La-9, Tempest 2, F4U-4B, MB.5, Some Spitfires, shitheaps like the F2H, Barougan, F-80C, for jets lots of MiG-17, F-2, Hunter etc. I think you get the picture.

There are both valid and invalid reasons I've come across and several BR ranges that are indeed imbalanced but I would say a lot of the issues stem from a few easily identifiable factors. These somewhat apply to Russia as well, though not to the same extent.

I think a lot of newer players have never seen this kind of Axis grindfest before, but it's happened many times in the past since 2015, not just for Axis but for any nation that's getting something that's been hyped up. I want to put it into a few categories, and I again want to reiterate that this isn't a "Git gud" post in the normal sense.

I'm actually going to offer some solutions and some advice.

I will start with Universal Reasons that go across all BR ranges, then more BR range specific ones.

Universal Reason 1: Lack of Interest in winning

I'm sure a lot of you read that and thought. "What the hell asshole, I try to win every match I thought you weren't going to be patronizing". Let me expand on this. I'm sure that you the reader are trying your absolute damnedest to win.

That being said, you are not always surrounded by like-minded people. This is also present on German teams (BV/JU pilots etc) but there is a large contingent of people flying Allied and to some extent Russian planes who are only trying to farm ground units or hit some bomb points. They are not going to really help you win the air battle, which is how the majority of RB matches are won. Axis teams are extremely fighter-heavy 99% of the time. Even when they have bombers, they tend to win for other reasons that I'll get into later.

"RB should be reworked so X etc etc"

Probably, but that isn't the point of my post. The point is that for whatever reason, Allied teams have the largest number of people who are just there for themselves, not for the team macro play. It's extremely likely to see 4-5 of your fighter teammates dive for the first JU-288 they see, I've seen it happen way more than once.

Universal Reason 2: Unforgiving Playstyles; Lowest Common Denominator

Planes like the Tempest 2, Hornet, Hunter, Typhoon, P-47s, P51s (all models), Corsairs, MB.5, etc are simply harder to play than a lot of their counterparts. They are "squad planes" through and through, and tend to do poorly when alone unless flown by good pilots or if you get that great random teammate or two that helps you carry.

There are a lot of Allied planes that many people think are shit, or bricks, but they're some of the best contenders in the game. They tend to have characteristics that are in a pendulum. They are really really good at some things, but extremely bad at others.

Other nations on the other hand have planes that are at least decent at a little bit of everything (109s, Yaks, Fiats, Reppus) which let the average person excel in them, coupled with the fact that Axis teams tend to have fighter-heavy compositions it's incredibly hard to beat a 1 vs 3 even against bad players when you can never safely slow down to set up an energy trap.

The myth of the "superior axis pilot" really needs to die. The best players I know have multiple lines complete or at least fleshed out. The average new person flying a 109 is just as clueless as someone flying the P-51D-5. Put them both against each other, the 109 will likely win simply because the Mustangs need time, practice, and understanding to use well. People do well in easy to use planes, that shouldn't be a terrible revelation. But easy to use does not mean the plane is overpowered.

Universal Reason 3: Team composition

I'm sure all of you have heard this one before. But there's really no way around this. Having a bunch of B-17s and AD-4s your team is basically the kiss of death unless you're on a map like Normandy where the ground attackers win before anyone else gets to even play. But in a map where you basically have no choice but to kill all the enemies, good luck. This goes all the way into jet tiers, which I will touch on farther (And I have to say something important about Axis bombers as well).

BR Range Specific Reasons: 2.0-4.0 – This is actually a relatively decent zone for the allies. Worst thing you have to deal with are the 109F4, 190A1, SM91, and MC205S3 but there are a multitude of seal-clubbing aircraft at this tier like the P39N-0, Corsairs, XP-55, Airspawned P-38G, etc. that can deal with them. – This BR bracket isn't too bad right now, especially since the German P-47 is no longer the stat padders low tier seal clubber of choice. BF109-F1 4 stacks from JG and such still exist but it's actually a decent place to play allies at.

BR Range Specific Reasons: 4.0-6.0 – I neglected to expand this to 6.3 since I want to talk about the prop vs jet battles in the next section – This BR range is where I think the majority of people are struggling right now. – Every single factor I mentioned before comes into play here – Another issue is the 152/335 airspawns (remove these), which ruin the climb-paths of many Allied planes and prevent them from getting the little bit of speed and altitude they need to be successful. – Allies do also have unjustified airspawns, like the Hornet and F-82E, but I don't usually see them spammed at the same level – This is where the rubber hits the road on high skill high reward allied aircraft. At the same time, many of the Axis planes play more or less exactly the same as they have before. Even Spitfires at this tier outside of the LF can't just herp-derp turnfight everything, and have to be flown extremely carefully. – Outside of the A-26 and to some extent PB4Y, the enemy bombers are faster, better armed, and a bitch to kill. JU-288s are honestly one of my most hated aircraft, far more than B-29s or Tu-4s because at least both of those planes have realistic FMS and the poor saps playing them get absolutely boned in the repair cost department. – That being said, for a lot of the 5.3-6.3 planes: THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO MANY OF THE AXIS PLANES THEY FIGHT. The issues often arise from the playstyle of these aircraft.

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BR Range Specific Reasons: 6.3-7.0

  • Remember what I said about Axis bombers being better. R2Y2 airspawn absolutely screws this BR up when it's being spammed in large quantities.
  • Because the Japanese are really the only Axis nation with a decent amount of useful 6.0 aircraft (162 doesn't count, its trash) it's very likely to get uptiered in your 6.3 to fight them. A lot of the P-80s on your team are brand new to jet combat at the moment, while the people farming RP in R2s are oftentimes vet. This BR is an awful one to play right now.

BR Range Specific Reasons: 7.0-8.0 – Here it is. Hell. The absolute worst battle rating, in the entire game to be in an allied plane that isn't an F-84G. – Rocket planes were thankfully made less irritating by being grounded, but are still ridiculous thanks to their rip tolerance changes – Ho229 used to not be a big threat thanks to its rip tolerance, which is now infinity and makes it an issue – Italian F-84G is identical to the Allied ones, but always air-start. I have admittedly abused this plane myself.
– The Allied 8.0s (Meteors, F-80C, F2H) are simply not up to par with the Axis (C2B, 163, etc) or Russian (Yak-23, Yak-30, La-200) counterparts. Uptiers in these planes is oftentimes a death warrant, while planes like the G91 Pre, Yak-30, C2B etc can handle themselves just fine when uptiered to 9.0 in a supportive role. Meteor Mk 8 is the only one from the allied side I would say can also do that, but only as support.

BR Range Specific Reasons: 8.3-9.0 – Glorious, sweet relief. The 8.3 Allied spread is actually pretty nice at the moment, both Panthers are very solid planes (Cougar not so much, though I know some people who like it). – Issue here are mostly people in stock A5s or FJ-4Bs who have no idea what they're doing – Premium pack purchasers who have no idea what they're doing – Outside of that, the actual difference in aircraft performance isn't quite as shit as it was in the "mid" jet BRs. I want to say again, that 7-8 BR bracket is the single worst one in the entire game for the allies. Even flying with exceptional people, it's extremely hard to win.
– That being said, this bracket is where you will start to see some relief, as the 8.0 Axis planes are outclassed by big bois like the F2 and Hunter, and their fuel/rocket/top speed weaknesses are exploitable.

BR Range Specific Reasons: 9.0 =/+ – I'm going to exclude mixed battles, as those are extremely common here. – At the moment, a ton of people are flying their only German 9.0, which tends to be the MiG-15bis or for Italians the G.91 R/1 and are getting absolutely roflstomped. I went on a tear with 2 of my friends a while ago just spamming out the F2, we had a much higher chance of losing against mixed than we did against the Germans. CL still outclasses you, but if you remove them from the equation: You are going to be just fine. And you don't see the same level of all CL/F40 nightmare fuel teams you used to before, at least not during US evening times.

Conclusion

I felt like it was worth writing this up, because there's been so much of this topic springing up lately. I wanted a realistic and unbiased discussion to happen, but those are extremely rare here on this Sub, especially since it's become so Ally-centric lately.

Solutions to these topics are what I'll leave you guys to discuss, as well as anything I wrote you think is incorrect. But if I had to write the TLDR:

  1. Allied teams have more people willing to throw matches and ground pound in fighters or just ground point, or dive at the first enemy they see than other nations.

  2. Many of the earlier Allied planes require a playstyle most people won't develop until they practice the game a lot longer, leading to some struggles at mid tiers

  3. Allied teams have horrendous team composition a lot of the time, against mostly fighter teams. When Axis does have bombers, they tend to be superior to the Allied ones outside a few counters that aren't as popular. (I'm told the A-26 is fantastic, try it)

  4. Airspawns and climbrate differentials are something people struggle with, and many don't know how to effectively get away from enemies (You have to shallow dive, 90 degree dive: you're still dead)

  5. I have no fingers of criticism to point at the people struggling in mid tier jets, the MM is actually awful for you. F2H pilots, a moment of silence for you all.

  6. Many good players are good but also don't want to struggle. Ex. It's a lot more fun for them to go 0-40 in the C2B than to try their hand at a shitty plane with a shitty MM like the F2H at the same battle rating, further increasing this issue. Many people are good and will follow the Meta, regardless of what it is. At points in the games history we had: Hunter Meta, Spitfire, P-47F-82, Yak-3P/I-185, etc.

Now we have a resurgence of the A7M/J2M meta, since so many people can't deal with enemies who are above them.

Solutions

This wave of grindage will pass, but these issues will remain no matter what. Let me know what you think, and any critcisms you might have.

I want to point out, many Axis planes are not good. The J2M series for example, is incredibly mediocre. Hell, most of the Japanese props are at this point, the reason people gravitate towards a FM characterless plane like the A7M is partially because of that. There's a reason you don't see a lot of Ki-61s buzzing around.

I would encourage anyone who is "maining" any nation to try others before ragging on anything.

Any opinions made by people who have not tried at least to some meaningful extent will not be taken seriously by me.

Let me know what you think. (Don't worry I wont ban you if you disagree with me)

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