It doesn’t mater how much DE nerfs Roar, nobody is going to pick decoy over it.

Warframe9 - It doesn't mater how much DE nerfs Roar, nobody is going to pick decoy over it.

The announced nerfs to infused abilities are really dissapointing for me personally, not because I'll have weaker abilities to play with, but because it shows that DE still doesn't understand their own game.

For this unaware, there's 5 abilities that only when infused (I.e. originals will be unaffected) will be weaker than their original version:

Rhino – Roar

Diminished Damage increase

Mirage – Eclipse

Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction

Valkyr – Warcry

Attack speed increase reduced

Protea – Dispenser

Duration reduced

Nidus – Larva

Radius reduced

Wukong – Defy

Armor capped

The reason DE gave for this is as such:

It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

This dissapoints me because it shows that DE is greatly misunderstanding why these abilities were the primary choices, and why their nerfing won't accomplish anything and will still result in these abilities being their primary choices.

I'll go over the 3 main culprits (defy, dispensary and roar) then speak in general about the helminth system in general.


Defy was such a popular choice because there's a very large number of frames that are completely unable to survive past a certain point in the star chart without being one shot.

People were hyped to use it because they could finally bring frames like mag, banshee, nova, harrow, ect. ect. to high level missions without being oneshot.

Also worth pointing out, defy ALREADY has a cap of 1500 giving about like 83% damage reduction which wasn't even gamebreaking (In fact wukong still dies at mot) but would have done a lot to elevate said weaker frames into viability at high level.

I find it disigenuous that they say "armour capped" when it already had an armour cap. They just reduced the cap. Defy was one of the most abilities abilities in the game. It requires set up, positioning, has a limited duration, prevents you from attacking and gives you a decent but not overpowered reward. Why even nerf this?

At the end of the day, It doesn't mater how much DE nerfs Defy. For frames with 0 defence and 0 way to stay alive, this is still the only choice they have if they want survivability.

There is no alternative if you want survivability. You're getting this either way.


This one is honestly just kinda baffling. It feels like a nerf for nerf's sake. Its just a little prop that poops out energy every 5 seconds or so. How is reducing duration doing anything other than arbitrarily inconviniencing the user?

People were hyped for this because it fixes the unbalanced energy economy. It wasn't going to break the game.


If you want a proper energy source, you're getting this with or without the nerf. The nerf changes nothing. There is no alternative if you want energy. You're getting this either way.


And here lies the crux of the issue with the helminth system. This is a fundumental problem with the helminth system in general.

Roar could give 40%, 30%, or 20%, it could give 5% for all I care, it literally does not mater.

I'm still replacing sandstorm with it.

I'm still replacing decoy with it.

I'm still replacing airburst with it.

I'm still replacing balistic battery with it.

I'm still replacing soul punch with it.

I'm still replacing ice wave wit hit.

I'm still replacing radial javelin with it.

The problem is not roar. The problem is everything else, both in and out of the helminth system.

  • 90% of the abilities you gave us for infusion are awful.

Let's be real, who is getting "Thermal Sunder", "Tempest Barrage" or god forbid, "Decoy" as their infusion ability? These abilities are literally useless. Nerfing roar and dispensary won't make decoy more desirable and it won't make roar less desirable.

Roar, Dispensary and Defy provide something a lot of warframes actually need, they're gstill going to be top picks unless DE actually gives us an alternative. Nerfing them won't do anything because they have no competition.

  • 99% of frames have at least 1 garbage ability that they would be happy to replace with literally anything.

Everyone knows what I'm talking about, ballistic battery, sandstorm, decoy, ice wave, ect ect. These abilities have literally no use, serve no purpose, and do nothing. In 99% of frames, everyone already knows what ability they're tossing the trash. What mesa main is going to miss ballistic battery? What inaros is gonna miss sandstorm? A passive 5% damage buff would be more beneficial than these abilities.

"We'll be buffing the abilities to make sure they're all viable choices!"

Whatever happened to that solution? Buffing all abilities so we would actually have a reason to pick them?

"We gave everyone the ability to chose between decoy and roar. Nobody picked decoy. Hm…. The problem here is obviously roar."

I'm not picking roar. I'm getting rid of decoy.

It does not mater how hard you nerf roar, I'm not picking decoy.

P.S on Eclipse: Eclipse is fundumentally broken from a technical standpoint. Before any buffs or nerfs happen, it needs to actually be fixed to work properly because you balance it or around it.


99% of abilities in the helminth system (and by extension the rest of the game) are hot trash. It doesn't mater how hard roar, defy and dispensary are nerfed. They're still going to be the best abilities because they're the only way available to get survivability, energy and damage.

They literally win by default by virtue of not being decoy.

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