Warhammer: Vermintide

Big Balance Beta – Iinitial Feedback Part 2

chivalry screenshot1 - Big Balance Beta - Iinitial Feedback Part 2

In which I discuss Career, talent and trait changes, mostly.

Link to my first thread where I discussed weapon balance changes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/9qv0ql/big_balance_beta_initial_feedback/

First of all, let's talk temp health. The changes are as a whole a good thing in my opinion, at least on paper (I mean, no temp health on ranged, nerfing the ranged meta and different talents that apply to different careers' strengths AND we get healshare back, what's not to like?) Howver, in practise they seem to be implemented quite poorly and there are some massive discrepancies between the usefulness of each talent:

Temp health on cleave – This one is a good option, and seems to work well with its careers such as mercenary with his passive cleaving bonuses. I didn't really find it too strong, nor too weak, no issues here.

Temp health on stagger – This one is ridiculously strong, I'm pretty sure that pushes triggering this isn't intentional, and if it is, then it's a massive oversight and probably shouldn't be. Removal of temp health on push should probably fix this one.

Temp health on kill – MUCH weaker than it's counterparts, you get minuscule amounts of temp health from slave rats and fanatics, even when killing large groups of them. Most of the health seems to come from specials, elites and bosses, which I find problematic because for one thing, it's much easier to kill specials with ranged which won't grant you your precious health (I mean seriously, trying to melee down a globadier for that massive chunk of health is annoying), and also I can see people fighting to try to get the killing blow on elites or bosses because they need it for temp health. Instead, I think this talent should be reworked in one of two ways: 1) Make it function more like Vermintide 1's bloodlust, where on kill you have a % chance to regain temp health rather than on every kill, but make the amounts actually substantial. or 2) Up the amounts from slaverats and fanatics and have it apply an amount of temp health based on the % of damage you do to the enemy, so for bosses, even if you don't get the killing blow, you're still rewarded for your efforts.

Temp health on crit/headshot – This one seems mostly fine, maybe a bit weaker than stagger/cleave temp health talents though. Also, I don't think it works well on some careers. The likes of shade and WHC it's great with, but why is it on bounty hunter for example?

New healshare talent – Interesting way of implementing it, so that you have to sacrifice the temp health skills. I can see it being really strong and useful in coordinated groups, although less so in pub lobbies. (I'm just imagining a situation where every player is using this talent, no one has temp health and everyone is refusing to pick up the tome)

Battle Wizard changes – Big fan of the changes. Tranquility was one of the main issues of BW before the update, the heat 25 talent rework is interesting, but the lingering fire trail talent could also do with a rework as it seems much less useful than cooldown reduction or the new talent.

WHC changes – Again, big fan. I do wish that animosity was buffed, rather than just lowering the cooldown, but it's better than nothing and as someone mentioned to me it's sort of an indirect buff now that you can use the duration talent and still have a low cooldown. The radius talent could be reworked into something more useful though, I mean, who even uses that?


Bounty Hunter Changes – Oh boy, time for salt, lots of salt. (andtobedownvotedformyopinionsagain) I really don't like the changes made to bounty hunter, as I think it removes some of his identity and the unique playstyle he was known for. I loved how melee synergized with ranged in that way and was one of the few ranged careers that rely on melee like that instead of just spamming ranged. I also don't think it was OP and that bounty hunter was balanced by his fragility and lack of escape options, making him more of a glass cannon, though these changes as well as changes to temp health make him more glass and less cannon. (Especially since bounty hunter only has access to the temp health on kill and temp health on crit/headshot skills which as mentioned earlier are weaker than the other 2 counterparts).

I don't think being able to reset the crit on melee by default was too strong, since if you're in melee range of a horde, it could be quite risky to swap back out to your ranged and actually make use of the crit after resetting it. The nerfs to BH seem mostly like a way to nerf scrounger crossbow Bounty Hunter, but yet they negatively affect the career even for other weapon users such as the volley crossbow which I still personally use (it's fun, try it on live) and those poor poor sods who are still using the repeater pistol. It really feels like we got shafted because of the strength of one meta weapon, when these other weapons, which aren't really viable on careers other than BH weren't at all OP. Maybe its time the likes of the volley bow and repeater pistol get a buff (speaking of, where were the buffs to underperforming ranged weapons this patch? Can't the repeater weapons, drakegun and bolt staff get some love?)

Overall, I feel like Bounty Hunter maybe got hit a bit too hard all things considered (nerf to passive, nerf to scrounger, nerf to crossbow, nerf to temp health AND getting the worst new temp health talents, nerf to falchion) and I think there could be some compromise such as melee kills lowering the cooldown of blessed shots but not fully resetting it.

Unchained changes – Not too sure I like the removal of Blazing Sinew and turning it into a talent, I always thought of that as part of Unchained's identity and I like how it made her melee synergise with her spellcasting. Don't know if I can justify choosing the talent over increased overcharge limit either, but overall I think she still plays pretty fine and is still very strong.

Scrounger changes – I'm a bit disappointed that they changed scrounger they way they did by just reducing the ammo returned to 1. This is just going to make the trait even more useless for certain ranged weapons like the ones with high ammo counts while probably not really changing much for the scrounger builds (The crossbow penetration nerf probably does more to nerf scrounger than the scrounger nerf does). I was hoping more for a rework entirely, where a percentage of ammo is returned on crit, but it only applies once and not to every target hit. This would make it a bit more viable for high ammo weapons, while nerfing it for the current scrounger heavy weapons like crossbow, longbow, grudgeraker etc.


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