Warhammer: Vermintide

lets talk about new Scrounger

warhammer 4 - lets talk about new Scrounger

So suppose I want to play IB because his portrait is due. Suppose I want to shoot stuff and I like the satisfying thunk of a crossbow bolt. I decide that in the current elite-b-gone meta I want to ensure some green circles for my trusty old Dawi. As a result, I go 20/20 skaven armored using one of my 4 red crossbows and 17 red charms – this allows me to kill SV with a single bodyshot on Legend, the highest difficulty available to quickplay. How many SV can I kill with this?

Let's do some math. So I've got 10% crit chance, 5% base and 5% from the charm. However I'm interested in killing as many SV as I can, so I'll be aiming every shot. This grants me an additional 10% crit chance. So my total crit chance is 20%.

Now, every time I fire 5 shots, statistically speaking one of them should be a critical hit. And every critical hit will return 5% of my maximum ammo. That turns out to be 5% of 20, which is 1 ammo exactly. So every 5 shots, I will crit once and return 1 ammo. In other words, if I fire 25 shots, I will spend 20 bolts. That's the amount of ammo I have, so I will, in going scrounger, increase my total ammo pool by 5, or 25% of my original pool.

Fair enough, it's a trait that gives me 25% bonus ammo on a crit weapon. No big deal. It's less ammo than just picking Ranger Veteran, he gets 50% extra ammo. I can kill 25 SV with bodyshots on Legend without ammo pickups on IB.

Ok, I feel like going RV now. Now I'll go the same build. How much ammo do I get now? Well, RV has 30 ammo base, and gets 5% of 30 per critical hit proc. That's 1.5, which happens to be rounded up to 2. So let's see: I fire 5 shots, one of them crits, and I get 2 ammo back from that crit. That means I end up firing 5 shots, but only spending 3 ammo. So if I fire 50 shots, I end up spending 30 ammo. This time, scrounger gives me 20 ammo, or 67% of my original amount. I can kill 50 SV with bodyshots on Legend without ammo pickups on RV.

Maybe I decide to bring out the big guns, and go back to trusty old nerfed Bounty Hunter. I go the exact same build, and pick the 6 second cooldown talent. Now, I decide that I want to fire about once every second on average. Quite a bit of bolts. The fastest you can fire without aiming, going reload talent and also active reloading is about once per second. Aiming puts it at about 0.8-0.9 shots per second. But lets for simplicity go with one aimed shot per second.

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Now, in 6 seconds, I will fire one guaranteed crit, and 5 other shots, of which statistically 1 will crit. This means that I fire 6 bolts and crit 2 times, returning 4 ammo. In other words, I only spend 1/3 of a bolt per shot. That means that I can fire 90 bolts, and spend 30 ammo, which is my ammo pool. Going Scrounger has increased my ammo pool by 60, or 200% of my original amount. I can kill 90 SV with bodyshots on Legend without ammo pickups on BH.

Now suppose I'm firing at a more modest (and possible) speed. I fire once every other second. Now every 30 seconds, I will get 5 free crits, and 10 regular shots. Of those 10, 2 will crit. That means that after firing 15 bolts, I will crit with 7 and thus regain 14 ammo. As a result, I will fire 15 * 30 = 450 bolts before running out of ammo. This will take a total of 900 seconds, or 15 minutes. Going Scrounger has increased my ammo pool by 420, or 1400% of my original amount. I can kill 450 SV with bodyshots on Legend without ammo pickups on BH. This is more than enough to kill every single SV on a Vanguard Deed with Deprivation active.

Without going too much into the math:

  • Huntsman can fire about 150 shots with longbow assuming 20% headshots and 20% crit chance & scrounger (this build can also oneshot SV).

  • Huntsman can fire about 400 shots with repeater handgun assuming 10% headshots, 20% crit chance, scrounger and the +25% crit chance talent at lvl 15.

  • Waystalker can fire 375 shots with swiftbow assuming 20% crit chance and scrounger (no ammo regen talents).

  • Witch Hunter Captain can fire 216 shots with repeater pistol assuming 25% crit chance and scrounger (so assuming all your shots are fired after a taggable enemy has died, the number is 135 if you always stay at 20% crit chance – a realistic value is somewhere between 216 and 135 shots).

Anyway, ranged meta doesn't go away if scrounger stays like this, in particular with respect to the weapons that can quickly destroy SV and other elites. For the above, only the swiftbow is incapable of easily killing SV. Repeater handgun/pistols can twoshot SV, while crossbows and the Huntsman bow can oneshot them. Obviously, the repeater handgun was just changed along with the brace of pistols, but the longbow and crossbows were not – and they will be just as good at killing elites as they are on live, because on ranged characters each scrounger proc will still return 2 ammo just like it does on live for elites.

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Please fatshark, look into nerfing the possibility of ranged weapons being able to easily, swiftly and without risk instantly kill the most common elite in the game, while simultaneously being able to have absurd amounts of ammunition. Scrounger returning 2 ammo on the standard high damage ranged weapons like xbow and huntsman bow for the ranged characters is very limiting. Even a slight nerf of 1 ammo on these weapons would mean they'd only get 1 ammo per scrounger proc, which would substantially limit the problem (even though the ability to oneshot elites without headshotting at range is still in my opinion a big issue).


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