Warhammer: Vermintide

Weapon Skins – Analysis of arguments

chivalry medieval warfare 01 1024x576 - Weapon Skins - Analysis of arguments

This thread is a rewrite, please see the explanation below.


Keep 5 red dust converted to 1 upgrade of weapon to veteran statistics.

Add 5 red dust converted to 1 weapon skin of choice (similar to DLC skins)

Assumptions: Red Dust rarity remains at about 7-8 general+ Legend loot boxes per item, or 3-4 hours of play time. This means that any single weapon skin can be achieved after 15-20 hours of gameplay (which represents about 15 days of casual playing). This means that an equivalent to a Red Weapon with the skin will take a combined 30-40 hours or about a month of casual gameplay, for a specific desired item.

Main argument:

1.1 Vermintide 2 is a Paid + DLC game, this means that each customer is actually entitled for a reasonable method to unlock 100% of the game, regardless of the luck they experience. Note that this is different from the standard applied to F2P/Freemium payment models. See: EA Star Wars Battlefront loot-box controversy. Fatshark are responsible to ensure the unlock times are reasonable relative to the expected life-time of the product for all customers, regardless of luck.

1.2 The current system of Random loot box rewards includes a statistical probability of not reaching 100% unlock in the expected lifetime of the game servers. (It even includes the statistical probability of never receiving just one desired specific weapon skin, no matter the effort).

(1.1 & 1.2) Therefore: Fatshark is actually expected to provide an alternative pathway those people who are unlucky with loot boxes – because they are customers that paid for that content.

Supporting case studies: Valve implemented a market/trading system to ensure their cusomters can have access to content regardless of luck in their games. Blizzard implemented a currency system that converts duplicate unlocks into the possibility to obtain cosmetics through direct effort.


Secondary argument:

Players that claim they will lose effort value if the alternative path is implemented are self-deceptive. The Random Distribution already invalidates their effort, and that of others, by the very nature of luck. An average person will have ~50% of the distribution being more lucky than them and receiving a desired reward for less effort, and ~50% of the distribution having to perform more effort for the same result.

The only "value" that remains is the disappointment of the ~50% of the distribution that do not receive their just reward. You should not be entitled to other people's negative feelings. Real Rarity should be a product of actual difficulty of achievement, which cannot be the case in a Random Distribution where real effort is invalidated.


  1. Fatshark can implement a band-aid solution to Weapon Skin achievement that will satisfy the majority of people involved.

  2. The fact that the game is Paid+DLC, means that each customer, even the most unlucky, must have a pathway to 100% unlock of the content the purchase.

  3. The counter argument Fatshark presents can be dismissed as being internally inconsistent, and based on misconceptions about effort vs. Random distributions.

  4. My secondary proposal is to implement a Verified Vote through the Game Launcher where the entire community can express their vote on an issue. If Fatshark is referencing public opinion, it should be accurately counted.

p.s. I apologize for the controversy of the previous thread on this topic. I worked to rewrite it without the loaded statements, and expanding on the actual relevant arguments.

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