Warhammer: Vermintide

Winds of Magic Beta – Feedback – Shade

warhammer 8 - Winds of Magic Beta - Feedback - Shade

Having spent 21 hrs playing cataclysm over the last week it came time to complete the feedback, which i did. But i also wanted to post it here on reddit for a friend of mine to be able to see what i had to say regarding the winds of magic beta (aka: the rising of the shield meta).

Despite spending most of my play time Battlewizard, witch hunter captain and ranger veteran, my feedback is about shade whom i did play as much as i could stomach what with it being in such a bad state outside of "a certain magical solo cheese build".

The cheese build in question is as follows: 76% cooldown reduction, bloodfletcher and 30% extra damage to poisoned or bleeding enemies. I reference it a couple of times so i listed it here so you all know what i am talking about.

Anyway my feedback was as follows:

Finally, if you had a magic wand to wave, and you could change, add, or remove anything from the experience, what would it be?

I would remove the level 30 talents and implement stagger mechanic by default and not as a trash tier talent row.

I would make each talent row themed with each option being useful (current the talents on the beta only have 1 real option in most cases). Examples of this done well are the level 5 talents being about temp HP/HP recovery. The ranger veteran has a talent row about his supply bags from specials (each option in these examples are viable, but the bombs/potions potion for RV doesn't proc often enough to be useful)

An example of changes i would make to the current talents to shade:

Level 5 talents are fine

Level 10 talents (the extra damage talents)

Cruelty – is fine, critical's are low chance and the extra damage is useful for your ultimate but not that great that it is game breaking.

Exploit Weakness – should be changed to increase bleed and poison damage by 50-100% (the same way the burn talent works on battlewizard) this would make weapons like daggers and hagsbane useful as their main damage source is bleed/poison. (i do understand the current version is useful from a team perspective (assuming the takes 30% more damage applies to all damage sources), but currently this talent does not compete with the 50% critical damage outside of the stealth/speedrunner cheese build mentioned earlier in the feedback)

Exquisite Huntress – Either 1) make the duration 10 seconds as 5 seconds isn't enough to be useful outside of killing horde trash faster, 2) make it a flat rate bonus with no duration like the Witch hunter captains +50% headshot bonus damage or 3) remove the talent add a useful one in its place.

Level 15 talents (the backstab effecting talent row)

Ereth Khial's Herald – has ways been a bad talent because the bonus damage does not affect your ultimate's damage boost. Either 1) allow it to directly boost your ultimate skill damage or 2) remove for a new talent

Vanish – It is currently not very good because 5 secs isn't enough to constant/consistently use it against hordes (i would say 7 seconds), you also get killed if you hit something and don't kill it because the invisible effect disappears. (not sure if bug or intended)

This talent has a lot of potential but needs serious tweaks.

Bloodfletcher – fine

Level 20 talents (the movement/survival talents)

Blood drinker – this talent is useless. Shade is not a tank and cannot tank things. 1) the damage reduction provided is too small to make any difference to your survival, 2) you only get the damage reduction if you recently critical and 3) it only lasts for 5 seconds which is not enough to useful.


Spring heeled assassin – this talent is useless. 20% is a useful/good amount of movement speed but it is tied to critical hits which makes it less useful then the next talent which is a flat 10% bonus

Gladerunner – this talent is not useful. A flat boost to movement speed is good but should be reworked to be 15-20%. This will give you enough movement speed to avoid attacks with good positioning/re-positioning allowing you to time your dodges to avoid the faster attacks that you can not outrun.

To summarize the changes here:

Add back in the 20% dodge talent to this row (Handmaiden is a Tank with the most ridiculous amount of block/stamina and it got to keep its dodge talent/passive, while shade a glass cannon class didn't (makes no sense)).

Change Gladerunner to be a flat 15-20% movement speed bonus.

Make the last talent either something new related to helping them in this push meta like enhanced push/stagger strength, bonus stamina regen, etc etc or rework Blood drinker to provide a flat rate 30% damage reduction

Level 25 talents (the ultimate augment talent)

Cloak of Mists – an interesting Augment idea, but easily exploitable by the stealth/speedrunner cheese build i mentioned in another section. If you wish to keep this Talent please add back in the 30% cooldown reduction to another talent on this row as an option for those of us that like to use the ultimate to be able to kill things and/or use stealth defensively.

Shadowstep – This talent is useless. A good player has good positioning and doesn't need this talent. It also will not save a bad player from being bad. This talent will only get in the way if you are trying to use a Potion to fight a monster or a Lord, as the augment will move you away from what you are trying to fight if you use your ultimate multiple times quickly.

Cloak of Pain – This was an interesting Augment idea but implemented poorly. Currently the only reason you would take this talent is because the other 2 talents on this row augment your ultimate in bad ways, not because this augment adds anything useful to your ultimate.

To make this talent desirable outside of not having your ultimate skill be bad, change the augment to allowing 2 attacks of your ultimate but at 66-75% of the normal ultimate attack power. This gives you a 24-50% overall damage increase which can be used to focus on a monster/lord OR multiple elites. This will allow shade players to feel impactful even if you do not add back in the normal 30% cooldown talent.

To summarize the changes here:

Change Cloak of Pain to allow 2 attacks of your Ultimate at 66-75% power of the normal ultimate. (this gives the shade consistent options on how to use the ultimate to fight different enemies)

Remove Shadowstep and keep Cloak of Mists alongside the current live server talent 30% cooldown reduction or revert Cloak of Mists back to current live server 30% cooldown reduction talent and add a new useful talent.

Level 30 talents (the stagger talents)

As stated at the start of this feedback – remove the level 30 talents and implement stagger mechanic by default and not as a trash tier talent row.

Source: Original link

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