World of Tanks

British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line

WorldofTanks2 - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line

Part of a series on British Light Tanks, including a LT/MT high-tier branch.

View my other proposals here!

  • German Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines
  • Swedish LT and Turreted TD Lines RIP TD line, this will have to be fixed
  • Japanese Casemate and Turreted TD Lines
  • High-tier Soviet TD Minibranches

Guess who's back with another tech tree proposal? That's right, yours truly! I'll get right into it, after a quick side note.

First, Wargaming has already confirmed that a British LT line is coming quite soon. This means that my proposal may end up being made irrelevant, again (my Swedish turreted TD proposal only lasted four days before WG broke it). I'm not upset – on the contrary, I'm glad to see the vehicles going into the game, even if it's a bit different than I'd imagined. There aren't very many options for a British LT line, so perhaps consider this post to be a preview of some vehicles that you are likely to see.

My last proposal was way too long, so in the future, I will be limiting my posts to a single line at a time. This also means that if you like one line but not another, you can show it with your upvotes/downvotes. This includes sub-branches, which I will try to post simultaneously.

As I do this, I am constantly learning what works and what doesn't, both in terms of the lines themselves and in how I present them. This time, I will be trying to standardize my introduction. Once I have a consistent format that I'm happy with, I'll go back and standardize all my old posts. If you have any suggestions on formatting, structuring, or how much / how little detail I go into in certain sections, let me know!


Table of Contents

Line Summary

Problems with the Line

Light Tank Line
Tier 2: M1937
Tier 3: Tetrarch
Tier 4: Harry Hopkins
Tier 5: A46 LT
Tier 6: FV301
Tier 7: Vickers 13t
Tier 8: FV4401 Exp.
Tier 9: Scorpion 90
Tier 10 Option 1: VFM 5
Tier 10 Option 2: CVR(T) 105

Conclusion


Line Summary

British light tanks have a long history, from the interwar period to modern times, so it's no surprise that the line changes character as it goes along. Early vehicles are fast, small, lightly armored, and equipped with capable single-shot guns. Mid tiers are more the same, although at tiers 7-8 they get autoloaders. The high tiers are defined by their exceptional mobility and small size – the tier 9 is smaller than the AMX 13 90, and the tier 10 not much bigger than that.

In general, the vehicles are small, fast, lightly armored, and have mediocre guns. Being British tanks, the high tiers get HESH rounds. What makes them unique is their combination of size and speed. Don't worry, they won't be the best scouts on the block – their camo and view range would be solidly average for their tiers.


Problems with the Line

Last time I didn't do a good job sharing my reservations with the lines, so I'll be more forward about it in the future.

This line is chronological – the newer the tank, the higher the tier. There is a question mark at tiers 7-8, as I couldn't narrow them down further than "1960s" but they shouldn't be too far off of one another.

This line has issues with the timeline. Tier 9 has a post-1975 gun option, and one of the tier 10 options is from 1986 (it otherwise would fit into the game just fine).

The vehicle configurations are mostly historical. I had to fudge the stats of the tier 5 and gave a few vehicles non-historical gun options, but nothing exceeding the caliber of their base armament. For example, the Harry Hopkins used a 2-pdr, so I gave it a different 2-pdr.

The line has some paper tanks. Of the vehicles listed here, 4 were mass-produced, 5 reached a prototype or mockup stage, and 1 is unknown. One of the tier 10 options is fake.

There is a reason we haven't seen a British scout line in all these years – it has a few problem spots, specifically at tiers 5 and 10. Tier 5 surprisingly has no natural candidate, so we either have to buff a tier 4 option or nerf a tier 6 option – I went with the latter. Tier 10's problem is that there are zero options from before 1975. We either have to pick a tank made after 1975, or make up a fake tank. I decided to present both options.


Tier 2: Vickers Model 1937

Nickname: M1937

Mass-produced, unknown number of vehicles made

vickers Carden Loyd M1937 700x434 - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
Image (early turret)

GB LightCommandTank - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
Image (later turret)

History: One of the more obscure vehicles from the inter-war period, this was part of a series of vehicles designed by Vickers for export. The first model, released in 1933 (and logically named M1933), was in essence a
Vickers light MkIV - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
Vickers Light Mk. IV with a different turret and suspension. Next year's M1934 included a new conical turret that could house up to a 13.2mm Hotchkiss. M1936 changed very little, but M1937 introduced yet another turret, this time housing a
Ordnance QF 2 pounder - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line2-pounder (40mm) gun or a
20mm Oerlikon gun.

There's another related vehicle, sometimes referred to as the M1938 or "Vickers Command Tank", which features a redesigned hull, improved suspension, and a different turret. I am not sure how exactly this vehicle is related to the M1937.

There is little information on these vehicles online, but the few sites I found draw their info from the same source: Tanks of the World, 1915-1945, by Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis (2002). A bit more information on the different models can be found
BritishLightTanks - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Linehere and here.

Stats: The vehicle had a two-man crew. Weighing a slight 3.8 tons, it had a top speed of 30-40 km/h (depending on the model) and a 90hp Meadows 6-cylinder engine, giving it a very healthy power-to-weight of 23.7 hp/t. Armor was thin, ranging from 4-9mm thick overall. The vehicle was physically quite small, being around 12 feet (3.6m) tall, 6 feet (1.9m) wide, and 6 feet (1.9m) tall.

In-game: This is a pretty standard tier 2 LT, probably most comparable to a Cruiser III without the Pom-Pom. Gun depression will be excellent, 10-15 degrees. The 20mm Oerlikon autocannon would be much like other 20mm cannons at this tier: AP/AP, 30mm/55mm pen, 11dmg per shot, and a 10-round clip (even though historically it had a 15-30 round clip). The 2pdr is, well, a 2pdr, probably the QF 2-pdr Mk. IX used by tanks like the Cruiser I. Other than being pretty fast, it's nothing special.


Tier 3: A17 Tetrarch, Light Tank Mk VII

Nickname: Tetrarch

Note: to reduce confusion, the existing Tetrarch (Russian tier 2 premium LT) should be renamed "Tetrarch LL", to note its lend-lease status.

Mass-produced, 100-177 vehicles total


Image

History: In 1937, Vickers saw it fit to design a successor to their
Light Tank Mk VI - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineMark VI light tank, which despite the similar name would vary significantly in design. Testing commenced in 1938, and the British accepted the vehicle into service, despite not knowing what to do with it; it was insufficient for the light cruiser role, and they were happy with their existing Mark VI light tanks. They found their place in 1942 in the 1st Airborne Division, where their light weight meant they could assist airborne forces by gliding into the battlefield in General Aircraft Hamilcar gliders. Notably, 20 Tetrarchs were flown across the English Channel as part of Operation Tonga in the invasion of Normandy, which successfully landed but did not accomplish much. The vehicle simply lacked the armor and armament needed to be successful, so in 1944 they were phased out in favor of the Cromwell and the M22 Locust.

In addition to gliding, some Tetrarchs were given Duplex Drives, which allowed them to swim. This means that the Tetrarch is possibly the only tank that was able to fight via land, air, and sea in WWII.

For further reading, check out the excellent Wikipedia article on the subject. Further reading.

Stats: This vehicle had a 3-man crew. Weighing in at 7.6 tons, it had a top speed of 64 km/h and a 165hp Meadows 12-cylinder engine, giving it a P/W of 21.7 hp/t. The armor varied from 4-16mm thick, only sufficient to resist some rifle and machine gun fire. Some vehicles were fitted with the Littlejohn adaptor to give them better armor penetration, and others were fitted with the Ordnance QF 3-inch howitzer, to provide close support.

Read:  I wish there were more options to not take the top-tier gun

In-game: This would basically be a tier 3 Tetrarch. I think the 75mm is too powerful on this fast a vehicle at tier 3, so instead, its primary armament would be the QF 2-pdr Mk IX with the Littlejohn adaptor. Example stats would be AP/APCR, 78mm/130mm pen, and 45/45 dmg (the adapter prevents the use of HE rounds). With this, it would have excellent penetration, which paired with good accuracy, aimtime, gun handling, and DPM would make it very reliable, even if the alpha is rather low. The A18, a nearly-forgotten project, was an improved version of this tank, so if documentation still exists it can be used to give this vehicle more modules.


Tier 4: A25 Harry Hopkins, Light Tank Mk VIII

Nickname: Harry Hopkins

Mass-produced, 100 vehicles total


Image

History: In 1941, Vickers submitted their design for a successor vehicle to their Tetrarch, which improved on the previous vehicle by adding thicker and better-sloped armor. These modifications reduced the top speed of the vehicle, as well as making the vehicle too wide and heavy to be carried by the General Aircraft Hamilcar. Initially, a whopping 2,410 vehicles were ordered for production, but the vehicle turned out to have major problems, so only 100 vehicles ended up being produced by February 1945. With the decision in 1941 to not use light tanks in the British Army (whatever needs they had were met by the
Stuart tank - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineM5 Stuart), these vehicles were instead assigned to the Royal Air Force, who used them for airfield defense. Ultimately, none of these vehicles saw combat.

By the way, Harry Hopkins was the name of President Roosevelt's chief diplomatic advisor. The more you know!

Further reading.

Stats: This vehicle had a 3-man crew. Weighing 8.6t, it had a top speed of 48 km/h, and powered by the same Meadows 12-cylinder engine as the Tetrarch (there are conflicting horsepower values listed) it had a P/W around 17-19 hp/t. The armor was much thicker, at up to 38mm on the front and 17mm on the side, in addition to better sloping. Historically, it equipped the QF 2-pdr, but it likely could've equipped the same guns as the Tetrarch.

In-game: I would give this vehicle a major mobility buff, so that it is just as fast as its predecessor. As the Tetrarch didn't get it, this would get the QF 3-inch howitzer, which is used by the
Covenanter. The primary gun this time around would be the
Ordnance QF 2 pounder#Variants - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line2-pdr Mk X-B
, the Matilda's top gun. Honestly, I'd give it very similar gun stats to the Matilda, a bit worse overall. In this configuration, it would be rather similar to the Pz. 38 nA.

Alternatively, if we pick the "slower" version of the tier 5, then this tank could drop the mobility buffs and get the exact same gun stats as the Matilda to make up for it. It would fit a more unique role, not directly comparable to other vehicles.


Tier 5: A46 Light Tank

Nickname: A46 LT

Prototype, multiple prototypes developed


Image (artist's impression)

History: Despite issues with the Tetrarch and Harry Hopkins, in 1943 the War Office wanted their next-generation light tanks to use the same suspension system, as it was cheaper, less complex, and allowed the tank to be narrower, ideal for airborne usage. Additionally, a higher-caliber gun with a better HE round was greatly desired. With this in mind, Vickers began the design process, and in 1944 the first 80 vehicles were ordered, even though no plans had yet been presented. This was a bit ambitious, and in actuality, production was slated to begin in mid-1946. A full-scale mockup was completed before the end of the war, but the vehicle continued development as the project morphed into the FV300 series instead.

There is exactly one solid article on this vehicle online, and you can read it
coldwar uk a46 light tank - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Linehere.

Stats: The vehicle had a four-man crew: commander, driver, gunner, and loader. Weighing 16t, it was about 10 inches (25cm) wider, 19 inches (48cm) longer, and 5 inches (12cm) shorter than the Harry Hopkins. With a top speed of 46 km/h, multiple engines were considered, including the 350hp Meteorite engine, which would've given this a P/W of 21.9 hp/t. The primary gun was the 77mm HV, the gun used by the Comet). Armor protection was excellent, with 75mm of frontal armor and plenty of sloping. Gun elevation was -12/+20 degrees.

In-game: In its current state, it's definitely too strong for tier 5, so we'll start by downgrading the gun to the 75mm Gun Mk V, one of the stock guns from the
Cromwell. Depending on the exact details of the armor layout, the vehicle could otherwise remain unchanged – it would occupy the same light-medium hybrid niche as the
crusader - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineCrusader
and Pz III/IV. Alternatively, the armor can be lightened to 50mm at its thickest, making it on par with the M7, and the top speed buffed to 60 km/h, again like the M7. In this configuration, well, it would be like an M7. I am okay with either option.


Tier 6: FV301

Nickname: FV301

Prototype, partially complete chassis made


Image (wooden mockup)

02 - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
Image (scale miniature, to help visualize the tank)

History: This project dates back to 1947, when the War Office decided to pursue three standardized series of vehicles: the FV200 series heavy cruisers, leading to the Conqueror; the FV400 series medium cruisers, such as the Centurion; and the FV300 series of lightly armored vehicles. Vickers rolled their existing A46 project into this one; multiple variants were considered, from a tank to multiple self-propelled guns to a number of support vehicles. In 1953, after calling into question the utility of lightly armored vehicles in general, the entire FV300 series was canceled.

Again, limited information on these vehicles is available online. For a bit more info, read
FV300 - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Linehere and here.

Stats: This vehicle had a 3-man crew. Weighing in a 21 tons, it is quite a bit larger than its predecessor, now about the size of an
M24 Chaffee. The armor was 50mm thick frontally. Details are otherwise sparse – it was powered by a 500hp engine, giving it a P/W of 23.8 hp/t. It had torsion bar suspension and equipped the 77mm HV.

In-game: I would give it the 77mm HV, but not the exact version used by the Comet; instead, it could get a 77mm HV Mk. I, which fires AP/APCR/HE, 135mm/185mm/38mm pen, 130/130/175 dmg. At this point, the line will start to take on its main characteristic: excellent mobility. With a top speed of 65 km/h, excellent hull traverse, and a new 580hp engine giving it a P/W of 27.6 hp/t, it would be one of the faster light tanks in its tier.


Tier 7: Vickers 13t

Nickname: Vickers 13t

Unknown stage of development

Imagine
7603332172 92bb072b62 b - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
this hull with
4292 - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
this turret

History: Sometime in the mid-1960s, Vickers made a proposal for a new 13-ton light tank which amounted to taking the
FV433 Abbot SPG - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
FV433 Abbot's hull and pairing it with the turret and weaponry of the
Alvis Saladin - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
Alvis Saladin. Evidently, the idea did not make it very far, likely because the contemporaneous
Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineCombat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked)), or CVR(T), promised similar firepower at a much lower weight of 8 tons. There isn't any more information on these vehicles online.

Stats: Despite the obscurity of this tank, we have a good sense of how it would have performed. As the name suggests, this vehicle would weigh around 13 tons. It would have either a 3- or 4-man crew. The top speed of 47 km/h was managed by a 240hp Rolls-Royce multi-fuel engine, giving it a P/W ratio of 18.5 hp/t. Armor would be very modest, being 32mm at the thickest. It equipped the 76mm L5A1 low-pressure gun, which was powerful enough to engage any armored non-tank threat.

In-game: We're going to have to buff this tank a bit. First, the top speed will be increased to 65 km/h and the P/W to 27.7 hp/t with the help of a new 360hp engine. A 76mm gun is insufficient at tier 7, and although the Saladin turret could fit a 90mm gun, I have a more interesting option: a 76mm autoloader. With a quick-firing 3-round clip, this would be very similar to the Chi-Ri's autoloader. Ammo would be AP/APCR/HE, 155mm/190mm/38mm, 140/140/185dmg. The 3-round clip would have 420 clip potential, a quick 2s intraclip, and a clip reload of 12s, giving it 1800 base DPM. It would be comparable to the AMX 13 75 or T71 DA, except it isn't OP like the T71 DA.

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Tier 8: FV4401 Experimental (or FV4401 Prodigal)

Nickname: FV4401 Exp. (or Prodigal)

Mockup constructed


Image

History: No, this isn't the
FV4401 Contentious - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineFV4401 that you all know, although it is part of the same project. In the early 1960s, Project Prodigal set out to develop a new air-portable tank destroyer. A variety of designs were considered, including a fixed-elevation casemate vehicle with suspension similar to the Swedish S-tank, and another with twin 120mm recoilless rifles. This particular version was quite different, instead equipping a belt-fed 17-pounder gun. Very little info on this vehicle is available online, but reportedly, enough information exists in the archives to reconstruct this vehicle.

Stats: Basically no information on this vehicle is publicly available, other than its armament.

In-game: This is such a strange vehicle that I couldn't resist adding it. Mobility statistics would be on par with the faster tier 8 LTs: top speed of 70 km/h, P/W ratio of at least 30 hp/t. Armor is sloped but not expected to be a particular strength. The highlight is of course the 17-pdr autoloader: with a 3-round clip, it would fire AP/APCR/HE with 171mm/239mm/38mm pen and 150/150/190dmg. The short 1.5s intraclip and 10.5s reload time would give it exactly 2000 DPM. It would be comparable to the B-C 12 t , giving up a small profile and clip potential to get better DPM.


Tier 9: FV101 Scorpion 90

Nickname: Scorpion 90

Mass-produced, 3,000+ vehicles total


Image

History: This vehicle can trace its lineage back to 1960, as the Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance (AVR) project was developed. This gave way in 1963 to the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance, Tracked (CVR(T)) program, which led to the FV100 family of vehicles. The vehicle was accepted into service in 1970, with the first production vehicles rolling off the line in 1972. Prizing mobility, a low weight, and a small profile, this vehicle holds the current Guinness world record for the fastest production tank, with a top speed of 82.23 km/h. It is still in service today in over a dozen countries worldwide.

For more information, I highly recommend this fantastic
british army medium weight capability - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Lineseries of articles on the development of the CVR(T) family of vehicles.

Stats: This vehicle has a three-man crew and weighs 8 tons. It has an official top speed of 72.5 km/h (unofficial of 80+ km/h), managed by its 190hp Cummins 5.9L diesel which gives it a P/W ratio of 23.7 hp/t. Armor is very thin, and only rated to resist up to 7.62x51mm cartridges frontally. Later export versions were fitted with the Cockerill Mk3 M-A1 90mm rifled gun. Gun elevation is -10/+35 degrees.

In-game: There are two things to say about this vehicle: it is very small and it is very fast. Compared to the AMX 13 90, it is about 16in (40cm) longer, but the AMX is 13in (33cm) wider and 9in (23cm) taller. With a top speed of 75 km/h, it would be the fastest tier 9 LT, with the help of a non-historical 300hp engine giving it a P/W ratio of 37.5 hp/t. This would more than make up for its lackluster 90mm gun, whose sole unique feature is having HESH instead of standard HE rounds.


Tier 10 Option 1: Vickers VFM 5

Nickname: VFM 5

Prototype, at least one vehicle total


Image

History: In 1986, Vickers unveiled their latest light tank design, based on the
M8 Armored Gun System - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineXM8 Light Tank. This lightweight, air-portable vehicle was intended for the export market. To date, no orders have been placed for the vehicle. Further reading.

This vehicle had a rifled gun and homogeneous armor, so it fits into the game technologically. However, it would be the newest tank in WoT by about 11 years. I am also not certain Wargaming can get the information they need to implement this tank.

Stats: This vehicle had a 4-man crew. Weighing 19.8 tons, it had a top speed of 72 km/h, managed by its 550hp Detroit Diesel engine, which gave it a P/W ratio of 27.8 hp/t. Armor would be thin. It equipped a rifled 105mm gun and stored 41 rounds of ammunition, with 19 rounds in the ready rack. Gun elevation was -10/+20 degrees. It was approximately the same size as the
M551 Sheridan.

In-game: This would be a bigger, badder version of the tier 9. With a top speed of 80 km/h and an impressive non-historical P/W ratio of 50 hp/t (with the help of a non-historical engine), it would be the fastest tier 10 LT overall. The 105mm gun would inevitably be similar to the other 105mm guns available to tier 10 LTs, just with HESH: APCR/HEAT/HESH, 240mm/280mm/105mm pen, 390/390/480dmg. It would overall be similar to the
sheridan?l=000000 - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank LineSheridan, but with slightly worse gun handling and slightly better accuracy.


Tier 10 Option 2: CVR(T) 105 (or CVR(T) No. 11)

Nickname: CVR(T) 105 (or CVR(T) 11)

Fictional


Image (prototype hull which would be used)

History: One of the CVR(T) prototypes, number 11, was modified to have an additional pair of road wheels, bringing the total to six road wheels per side. This could be used as the basis of a 105mm-equipped vehicle. This concept isn't completely baseless: in the mid-1980s, Alvis proposed their "
Alvis Sagitar - British Tech Tree Proposal: Scout Tank Line
Sagitar" design, which mated a 105mm Rheinmetall Rh 105-11 low-recoil gun to their Stormer chassis, the direct descendant of prototype 11.

The main reason to use this over the VFM 5 is that because it's completely fictional, WG can make up stats for this instead of having to obtain the stats for the original vehicle. I don't believe the VFM 5 prototype is in any museum, and it's new enough that Vickers might not be willing to give WG the info they need to make the tank. I also think this vehicle would have more consistent gameplay to the tier 9, as the VFM 5 would be very similar to the Sheridan.

Stats: As the hull is the predecessor to the Alvis Stormer, we can use it to make some guesses to the performance of this tank. Compared to the tier 9, it is the same length and width, but will be a bit taller. Weighing around 13 tons, it had a top speed of 80 km/h, managed by a 250hp Perkins 6L 6-cylinder diesel, giving it a P/W ratio around 20 hp/t. Armor would be very thin. The 105mm gun would be contemporaneous to the famous 105mm Royal Ordnance L7, but I can't find any specific information on its performance.

In-game: This is basically the tier 9 with a 105mm gun. The rest of the stats would be the same as I proposed for the VFM 5. This vehicle would be smaller but with horrendous armor, so it would feel more like a cross between the T-100 LT, Rhm Pzw, and AMX 13 105.


Conclusion

This line would be a cool addition to the game, as it walks through the history of light tank development in Britain from the 1930s to the 1970s and beyond. All major projects except for the AVR have representation here. These would be a good foil to the Russian LTs, by exchanging raw scouting ability and armor for better top speed and better gun depression.

Between the two tier 10 options, I personally prefer the CVR(T) 105, because if we're going to either be breaking the "no fake tanks" or "no tanks past 1975" rule, I'd want to get the vehicle that fits the line better. However, I'm sure plenty will disagree, which is why I listed both options.

As for the other Vickers MBT prototypes? I'm giving them a sub-branch, which you can read about here.

Source: Original link


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