World of Tanks

German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

WorldofTanks3 - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines
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View my other proposals here!

  • Swedish LT and Turreted TD Lines RIP TD line, this will have to be fixed
  • Japanese Casemate and Turreted TD Lines
  • High-tier Soviet TD Minibranches

Hey everyone! I'm back again, quite a bit sooner than I'd expected, this time with a proposal for beefing up the German tech tree with two more TD lines. Do they really need them? Not really, but the sheer number of tanks they developed is incredible. By one estimation, there's enough to make 6 full lines, with quite a few vehicles left over. It's insane.

I'd like to thank ThatTrafficCone, aka
RazgrizS57 - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

/u/RazgrizS57, for helping me design the turreted TD line. Your advice was invaluable. You can find his own (continuously updated) German tech tree proposal here. I highly recommend checking it out – it's much more ambitious than my posts.

I must like researching tank destroyers, because as of this post, five of the last six lines I've researched will be TDs, three of which are turreted TDs. It's a coincidence, I swear. I can stop researching TDs any time I want.

I had different motivations for each of these lines. For the assault TD line, it was to add representation to some historical German vehicles that are conspicuously absent from the game. It's not hard to see why they aren't already present; some of them are… problematic, and an adequate interpretation of these vehicles into a tech tree hasn't really been made. Until today!

With the turreted TD line, it was for a completely different reason: to make the gameplay more consistent. Right now, we have three turreted German TDs at tiers 8-10, and they play very differently from the tiers 2-7 that precede them. It's a big change, so in addition to having a new TD line which receives turrets much sooner, I also found new vehicles that would follow the Sturer Emil that better fit the ethos of that line.

With this, we finally introduce more vehicles based on the 38 (D) platform! Wait, I'm the only one excited by that? Okay, how about the Sturmtiger?

Brace yourselves.


Table of Contents

Assault TD Line
Tier 6: 15cm Hetzer
Tier 7: sIG 33B
Tier 8: Sturmpanzer IV
Tier 9: Sturmtiger (P)
Tier 10: Sturmtiger 21

Alternative Proposal: Assault SPGs

Turreted TD Line
Tier 2: Flakpanzer 38(t)
Tier 3: Aufkl. 38(t) or Sd.Kfz. 140/1
Tier 4: Aufkl. 38D
Tier 5: Rhm.-B. WT 105
Tier 6: Jpz 38D
Tier 7: Egen WT

Branch 1: Low-Profile Vehicles
Tier 8: Krupp L WT
Tier 9: Rhm.-B. WT 4
Tier 10: Rhm.-B. WT 6

Branch 2: Rear-Turreted Vehicles
Tier 8: Egen-m WT
Tier 9: WT auf Pz IV
Tier 10: Grille 15

Branch 3: Panther-Based Vehicles
Tier 8: Gerät 5-1213
Tier 9: Mittlerer WT
Tier 10: Skorpion 15

Conclusion


Assault TD Line

First, a foreword. This line is… problematic. Players have been asking for these vehicles for years, but they haven't made an appearance, and for good reason. The Sturmtiger is armed with a 380mm rocket launcher. Even if we ignore the "rocket" part, a 380mm gun is impossible to fit into this game, never mind balance to not be extremely obnoxious.

It turns out the vehicle was initially slated to get a 210mm gun, which was passed over due to availability problems. This is still a massive friggin' gun, but it's much more workable. We can't balance this like a normal gun, so the damage numbers will be toned down a bit. It'll still pack a massive punch, just without ruining the game too much.

Are these TDs or SPGs? Well, the gun says "SPG", but the other characteristics say "TD", and their real-life role on the battlefield was even narrower than that. I'll first present these as if they were TDs, then follow it up with an alternate proposal to make some sort of "assault SPG" class.

As TDs, these vehicles have massive howitzers. That's really what defines them. They have armor on paper, but in practice will rarely bounce enemy shots. They have tall profiles, but surprisingly reasonable mobility for their size. It's an entire line of SU-152-like vehicles.


Tier 6: 15cm s.I.G 33/2(Sf) Jagdpanzer 38(t)

Nickname: 15cm Hetzer


Image

Prototype built, possible production run

History: In 1944, the Czech factories producing the
Hetzer - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Hetzer were able to produce chassis faster than guns could be built and fitted to them, so it was decided to consider other gun options to mount to the platform. There were stocks of old 15cm sIG 33 heavy field howitzers available, so pairing the two seemed a logical decision. The initial prototype was based on a Bergepanzer variant. The superstructure was modified, raising the armor plating to fit the height of the gun, and the chassis had an open roof for unrestricted gun elevation. Being an artillery piece, the vehicle was primarily intended for indirect fire.

Reportedly, a total of 30 vehicles were ordered for production, six of which were to be converted from existing chassis, but no documentation exists verifying that this was completed. One source suggests an additional 30 vehicles were ordered, for up to 60 total vehicles. Based on what we know, it can only be said for sure that the prototype was built.


Source 1
tfsig33hetzer - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines2

Stats: Being based on the Jagdpanzer 38(t), aka the Hetzer, it would have had similar armor and mobility characteristics. This includes 60mm of well-sloped frontal armor, a weight of around 16 tons, a top speed of 42 km/h, and a power-to-weight ratio of 10 thanks to a 160hp Praga 6-cylinder engine. This particular gun historically fired HE and HEAT, as well as smoke rounds and a "demolition" charge. The vehicle had 5 degrees of traverse to each side, and elevation angles of -0/+73 degrees.

In-game: This particular vehicle kinda has to be forced into the role, but when I saw a picture of it, I couldn't resist. A Hetzer with a 15cm gun? What's not to love? Well, getting shot by it I suppose. Being a tier 6 tank, I feel comfortable giving it similar gun stats to the KV-2 and O-I, especially the latter . Due to its height, camo would be poor, and the gun depression would have to be buffed to at least -5 degrees. We don't currently have a 15cm-armed TD at tier 6, so this would occupy a unique niche. I'd give it AP/HEAT/HE with 120mm/150mm/85mm pen and 700/700/910dmg. To give it a stock grind (because what is World of Tanks without one), it could equip a 105mm howitzer as the stock gun. Lastly, I would give it the same top speed and acceleration of the regular Hetzer, but decrease the hull traverse, to reflect its heavier armament.


Tier 7: Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B

Nickname: sIG 33B


Image

Limited production, 24 vehicles total

History: In July 1941, it was decided to develop a version of the
Sturmgesch%C3%BCtz III - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Sturmgeschütz III equipped with the 15cm sIG 33 howitzer, so Alkett converted a dozen StuG III Ausf. E chassis by January 1942. A dozen more conversions were ordered in September 1942. These vehicles sported a boxy superstructure with up to 80mm of frontal armor. They were intended to provide close-range fire support in urban environments, where they had enough frontal armor to resist small-arms and anti-tank fire, and equipped a large enough gun to level a building in a few shots.

The first dozen vehicles were delivered in October 1942 and fought in the Battle of Stalingrad, where all vehicles were destroyed or captured. The remaining dozen vehicles were intended for "Assault Gun Battalions" 243 and 245, but they could not be delivered as the Soviets surrounded the German 6th Army, so they were formed into a new battalion and assigned to the 22nd Panzer Division. This division was nearly wiped out trying to relieve the trapped 6th Army, so the remaining vehicles were assigned to the 23rd Panzer Division. By September 1944, only five vehicles remained in service.


Source 1
Sturm Infanteriegesch%C3%BCtz 33B - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines2

Stats: Different chassis were used for the conversions: the StuG III Ausf. B, C, D, and E chassis. The gun had 3 degrees of gun traverse to either side and -6/+25 degrees elevation. The vehicles weighed 21 tons, had a top speed of 20 km/h, and were powered by the 296hp Mayback HL120TRM, giving them a P/W of 14.1 hp/t. Frontal armor reached up to 80mm.

In-game: This is a German SU-152. Unfortunately, the frontal armor is mostly cosmetic at this tier, but having an enclosed roof is nice. I wouldn't mind if this received better frontal armor, so that it could brawl better. I'd buff the top speed 40 km/h, and the gun would have some improvements over its predecessor. To keep pace with its Russian competition, it would get improved penetration on its AP and HEAT rounds, 135mm and 200mm respectively. Beyond that, not a lot would change. This would have a variety of minor improvements to firepower and mobility over its predecessor.


Tier 8: Sturmpanzer IV

Nickname: SPanzer IV


Image

Mass-produced, 303-316 vehicles total

History: In 1942, Albert Speer ordered the development of a howitzer mounted on a tank chassis, so Alkett developed a vehicle based on the
Panzer IV - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Panzer IV chassis. This vehicle equipped the StuH 42 L/12, a newly developed gun which shared ammunition with the sIG 33, in a well-armored superstructure. There were a total of four versions; the first series suffered from reliability issues as the superstructure and gun were too heavy for the suspension, so the second series lightened the casemate. This was insufficient, so in October 1943, they redesigned the gun to save 800kg of weight, using this change in the third series onward. The vehicles first saw action in Battle of Kursk, and spent their time serving on all major fronts, seeing combat in Anzio, Normandy, the Battle of the Bulge, and many other major engagements throughout the war. Four vehicles survive today.


Source 1
Brummb%C3%A4r - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines2
3

Stats: The vehicles weigh 28.2 tons, have a top speed of 40 km/h on roads (25 km/h offroad), and are powered by the 296hp Maybach HL120TRM, for a P/W ratio of 10.5 hp/t. The front of the casemate was 100mm thick at a 40 degree angle, but the front hull was only 40mm thick. The gun traversed 10 degrees to either side, and elevation was -5/+30 degrees.

In-game: This is an improved version of the tier 7. The armor gets an upgrade, but in practice it'll make no real difference. This still has a 15cm derp, but a new AP round with 205mm penetration will keep things interesting, as well as a minor alpha damage bump to 750/750/950. Honestly, it's the same old thing. Again, I wouldn't rule out an armor upgrade, to let it brawl a bit better. Don't worry, things are about to get exciting.


Tier 9: Sturmtiger (P)

Nickname: STiger P


Image (front casemate, visually fits the line, my own design)

LVM3m40 - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Image (rear casemate, more realistic, from
german assault gun branch - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD LinesFor the Record)

Concept, never reached design stage

History: The only vehicle of dubious historical accuracy in this line, but it is not a complete fiction. In September of 1942, the order was given to research the viability of installing a 210mm French mortar into a Porsche Tiger. Shortly afterwards in October 1942, Hitler said that if the Panzer IV could have the sIG 33 gun mounted, then a 210mm-equipped Porsche Tiger was no longer a priority for development. Later, in March 1945, a proposal was made regarding a 210mm mortar, which was intended to be mounted on the Elefant.

Source 1

Stats: This is likely the inspiration for the G.W. Tiger (P), even though the original proposal was meant for direct fire. Regardless of design, this would essentially be a Ferdinand, with 200mm of lightly sloped frontal armor, a top speed of 30 km/h, and an impressive weight of almost 70 tons.

In-game: The platform is straightforward to balance, as it's basically a Ferdinand. The gun arc can be the same as the previous tank: 10 degrees of traverse to each side and -5/+30 degrees elevation. A 210mm gun is unprecedented in the game… for a direct fire role. The existing German 210mm gun used by the tier 8-10 German artillery has 53mm pen and 1100dmg, which is less than a Type 5 Heavy's derp, so we have some room to work with. I would give this AP/HEAT/HE, with 240mm/310mm/95mm pen and 900/900/1250 alpha damage. That's a big friggin' gun, especially at tier 9, but it's not completely out of place.


Tier 10: Sturmtiger 21

Nickname: STiger 21


Image (picture it with a smaller gun)

Mass-produced, 19 vehicles total

History: Since the development of the sIG 33 and Sturmpanzer IV, anti-tank weapons had improved considerably, so the Wehrmacht saw it fit to develop a new, heavily armored vehicle to perform the same role. Originally, it was intended to mount a captured 210mm French mortar, but availability issues arose and a new 380mm gun was selected instead. In 1943, development was underway, with the hull designed by Krupp, the chassis assembled by Henschel, and the rest of the assembly by Alkett. The first complete prototype was presented in October 1943, with production beginning in April 1944 and lasting through January 1945. The vehicles were only used in their intended role one time, during the Warsaw Uprising. From that point on, Germany was on the defensive and the vehicles were simply used for their gigantic guns, to bombard enemy targets from a distance.

SturmTiger - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Source 1
Sturmtiger - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines2

Stats: Due to its new casemate, the vehicle weighed over 69 tons. The casemate front was 150mm thick at a 47 degree angle, offering about 200mm of effective protection, in addition to an equally strong LFP. The top speed was 40 km/h, but due to the weight increase, the 700hp Hayback HL230P45 could only manage a P/W ratio of 10.1 hp/t. Gun traverse was limited, at 10 degrees to either side and -0/+85 degrees elevation.

In-game: The armor is slightly worse than the tier 9s, but it doesn't matter much. Obviously gun elevation would have to be tinkered with; -5/+30 should be fine. I'd increase the alpha damage a bit, even if it was intended to use the same gun as the tier 9, to 1100/1100/1500, to provide some sense of progression.


Alternative Proposal: Assault SPGs

As noted in the preamble, these vehicles straddled the line between "TD" and "SPG", both in terms of doctrine and real-world usage. They also have gigantic guns, so it may be desirable to make them into SPGs instead. This can be done! I considered adding the Bär, but I think a 305mm gun is too much, even for an arty. Since these wouldn't be able to branch off of the StuG III anymore, I'd branch them off of the Sturmpanzer II and add a new tier 5 vehicle, the
Grille Ausf. H. This is the early model of the Grille, with the gun mounted forward in the hull.

As assault SPGs, these vehicles would have much better health, on par with same-tier light tanks, and their guns would be balanced based on however same-tier SPGs are balanced. They would have low max elevation and a short range, around 550m (within render range). To help with their flatter arcs, they would get higher penetration, and as they are damage dealers, they would NOT have stun. Instead, they would be able to use both arty view and sniper view, to allow them to engage in direct combat if the situation calls for it.

I would consider giving them low-pen HEAT rounds, but HE should be their primary shell. Lastly, DPM would likely be increased a bit, to enable them to provide effective fire support. These are for the aggressive artillery players that know what the "W" key does, who move around and provide close-range fire support. If the flank falls, they fall with them. This is a totally new concept for SPGs in World of Tanks, but I think it's a cool concept and one worth testing.


Turreted TDs

Now we get into the paper tanks! A few of these vehicles are historical, but only a handful of Waffenträger designs reached the prototype stage before the war ended. That said, this is a video game, and I am happy to introduce vehicles if they offer novel gameplay or some other desired feature.

With this line, I have two goals. One: introduce turreted TDs much earlier, so that players don't have to wait so long to unlock the ability to traverse their guns more than 10 degrees. Two: make the current Grille 15 line more consistent. The tier 8-10 tanks play nothing like the tier 2-7 vehicles, and the tier 10 itself is an outlier. Here, I will make two slightly different proposals, depending on how much I'd be allowed to mess with the tanks already in the game.

If I am trying to change as little as possible, then I'd add a new line from tiers 2-7 and connect it to the
rhm b wt - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Rhm.-B. WT. I'd then add new vehicles at 8-10 that branch off the St. Emil. A temporary connection would exist between the St. Emil and Rhm-B WT, but only for one patch, to give players time to grind to their preferred vehicle. I otherwise wouldn't change the characteristics of any of the tanks in the game.
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If, however, I could mess with things a bit, then I'd add new vehicles for tiers 8-9. The Rhm-Borsig WT would be shifted to tier 10 for this line. I'd then add a new tier 8, which would branch off both the Sturer Emil and my new tier 7, which itself would connect into the WT auf Pz. IV and Grille 15. We'd therefore have three different branches of high tier Waffenträgers, each with distinct playstyles:

  • Low-profile vehicles: mid-caliber snipers, which are slow and have poor gun depression
  • Rear-turreted vehicles: high-caliber snipers, which are larger and/or have bad gun depression
  • Panther-based vehicles: highly mobile and flexible, but with a very large profile

Also, I thought I'd mention that this line is entirely based on the Panzer 38(t) and Panzer 38 (D) chassis. Pretty cool that the same platform can stretch so many tiers! This concept was previously considered by SilentStalker in his own tech tree proposal, "Devil wears Praga". His article is worth the read, as he went a different direction than I did.


Tier 2: Flakpanzer 38(t)

Nickname: FlakPz 38(t)


Image

Mass-produced, 141 vehicles total

History: In the second half of World War II, Germany struggled to maintain air superiority, in part because of a lack of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns. Although the Flakpanzer I had been previously built at the start of the war, it was not a very effective vehicle and only 24 of them were produced. In 1943, another attempt was made to make an AA vehicle, this time based on the Panzer IV chassis equipping the 3.7mm Flak 43. That vehicle was preferred, but it would not be available for some time, so in October 1943, the order was made to use the Panzer 38(t) chassis and the 2cm Flak 38 as a stopgap measure. Using the Grille Ausf. M as their basis, the first prototype was ready a month later in November and production ran until February 1944. A total of 141 vehicles were produced in this brief production run. The vehicle itself was not very effective, as the 2cm Flak gun was obsolete at this stage of the war, so it was often used in an anti-infantry role instead.

flakpanzer 38t auf selbstfahrlafette 38t ausf m sd kfz 140 - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Source 1 2)

Stats: The vehicle weighed 9.8 tons, had a top speed of 42 km/h, and was powered by a 150hp Praga motor, giving it a P/W ratio of 15.3 hp/t. The gun mount could traverse 360 degrees, but only with the armored walls lowered. Gun elevation ranged from -5/+90 degrees, although some sources suggest it had -10 degrees of gun depression. Armor was only 15mm max, and the open top left all but the driver vulnerable. The gun fired both AP and HE shells out of 20-round clips, and stowed a total of 1000 shells. The vehicle had a crew of (most likely) four: gunner, driver, loader, and radio operator, and the commander was either the gunner or radio operator.

In-game: I'd make the radio operator the commander, and give it a 200hp top engine. This is a fully turreted vehicle, but I would only fold down the front armor shield, effectively limiting its traverse to around 30 degrees to each side. I would give it the 3.7cm Flak 43 as a single-shot alternative gun. In this configuration, it is almost identical to the Swedish Pzlvv fm/42.


Tier 3: Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) OR Sd.Kfz. 140/1

Nickname: Aufkl. 38(t) OR SdKfz 140/1


Image

Prototype, 2 vehicles total

History: This vehicle is hard to give a good name to, because there are two different versions of this which are rather different: a turreted version
aufklarungspanzer 38t - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) equipping the 2cm KwK 38, and a turretless version equipping the 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24. This is the latter vehicle. The problem is, the turreted version is the more widely known tank, so I hesitate to name it Aufkl. 38(t) so as to prevent confusion.

The reconnaissance battalions of the German Army desired having their own fully-tracked vehicle, so in 1944 a few then-obsolete Panzer 38(t) vehicles were converted to serve this purpose. They accomplished this by removing the turret, building a new upper hull, and mounting a "Hangelafette turret", armed with a 2cm KwK 38 gun and a single 7.92mm MG 42. This low-profile open-topped turret included anti-grenade grilles, which folded down to cover the top. Utilizing riveted construction so as to lower costs, between 50 and 70 vehicles were built. In addition to this turreted variant, another version which mounted the 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 in the superstructure, of which two vehicles were produced. Few records exist of how either vehicle performed, and no vehicles are known to survive today.

This vehicle is not to be confused with the Gerät 564 (
Oa8i6OJ - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


image).

aufklarungspanzer 38t 2cm kwk 38 l55 sd kfz 1401 - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Source 1
Panzer 38(t - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines2)

Stats: Statistics are hard to find online for the 7.5cm equipped version, but presumably they are very similar to the standard turreted version. The vehicle weighed around 9.8 tons, had a top speed of 42 km/h, and with its 125hp Praga Typ TNHPS/II engine had a P/W ratio of 12.7 hp/t (I'm not sure this is the engine it actually received). I don't know how far the gun could traverse, but with an open top, it likely had good elevation angles, mount permitting. It had 50mm of mostly flat armor on the front hull, with 10-30mm on the side. One (unverified) source suggests the casemate was only 30mm thick frontally. This gun offered AP, HE, and HEAT shells, with the Pzgr. 39/2 APCBC shell sporting 55mm of penetration at 500m, and the Gr.38 HI/C HEAT shell offering 115mm of penetration. The vehicle had a crew of four: commander, gunner, driver, and co-driver.

In-game: The co-driver will become a loader. In-game, the 7.5cm L/24 has horrible penetration, so I'd give this another (non-historical) gun as its top gun: the 7.5cm Stu.K. 40 L/43, with AP/APCR/HE, 103mm/139mm/38mm pen, and 110/110/175 damage. This vehicle would have rather decent frontal armor, so it can keep its current mobility. Overall, this would be comparable to a Marder II, perhaps giving up a bit of gun handling and gun arc in exchange for that extra armor.


Tier 4: Aufklärungspanzer 38 D

Nickname: Aufkl. 38D


Image

Blueprint-only

History: One of many, many vehicles considered for the new 38 D chassis. Since the rest of the line has limited historical information beyond "this blueprint existed", I'll discuss the history of the 38 D chassis here.

In September 1944, high command wanted a new light tank destroyer, based on the 38(t) chassis. However, this wasn't easily done, as the details of Czech manufacturing at the time made modification difficult; thus, it was decided to modify the suspension with German methods. Originally, this was designated 38(R) for "Reich", but this was soon changed to "D" for "Deutsch". In October, as the Panzer IV was being phased out of production, it was decided that in 1945, only three chassis would continue production: the Tiger, the Panther, and the Panzer 38 t/D. This project made quick progress, with the basics done by November, so a new vehicle was planned with this chassis: the Jagdpanzer 38 D. As the name implies, this was very similar to the existing Hetzer. Plans were made to begin production in January 1945, but the war ended before any vehicles were completed, save a pair of partially assembled prototypes.

Many, many vehicles were based on this chassis, a few of which were built. This particular vehicle would have replaced the Aufkl. 38(t), offering much better armor, a fully traversable turret, and the 7.5cm KwK 40 L/48 gun.

devil wears praga 38t praga td proposal - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Source 1

Stats: I only have some statistics on the Jagdpanzer 38 D, the basis of this vehicle. It offered the same well-sloped 60mm of armor as its predecessor, a new 220hp engine, and a top speed of 40 km/h. The Aufkl. 38 D would've had an open top turret.

In-game: This would be a significant step up from the previous vehicle, with excellent frontal armor and a fully traversable turret. As it's basically a Hetzer with the 7.5cm L/48 in a turret, this would compete with the American M8A1 in the turreted TD role. To keep things balanced, this gun will merely be decent in terms of DPM, accuracy, and aim time, and I'd leave the mobility the same as the Hetzer's to give the M8A1 the mobility advantage. For the gun grind, it could get the 7.5cm L/24 as the stock gun, followed by the 7.5cm L/43 and then the 7.5cm L/48. Enjoy the armor, because this is the last time you'll have any.


Tier 5: Rhm.-Borsig Waffenträger 105

Nickname: Rhm.-B. WT 105


Image

Blueprint-only

History: The first Waffenträger in the lineup. Again, lacking anything else to talk about, I'll discuss the history of the Waffenträgers. Translating to "weapon carrier", the idea of a unified, mass-produced weapons carriers can be dated to early 1944. The army had an issue with the lack of mobility of their field guns, often having to destroy them before they fired a single shot because they couldn't tow them to safety. Thus, it was decided in January 1944 to make a series of weapons carriers based on the 38(t) platform. The first vehicle to be created was by Ardelt, whose partially functional prototype equipping the 8.8cm PaK 43 L/71 ready in April 1944. The vehicle performed pretty well in trials, with development continuing through September, but the project was later cancelled.

Steyr developed their own competing vehicle, which carried the same gun and offered similar characteristics to Ardelt's vehicle. The gun mount was modified by Krupp, hence it's designation in World of Tanks as the
steyr wt - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Krupp-Steyr Waggenträger. At least one prototype was made, and later captured by the allies.

The third Waffenträger was developed by both Krupp and Ardelt, based on Ardelt's first design. Offering a fully traversable turret, it had elevation angles of -8/+25 degrees. Two prototypes were made, and seven more were serially produced, which saw combat in the final days of WWII in the defense of Germany. One of the vehicles was captured by Russia, which now sits in Kubinka Tank Museum.

Although these three vehicles equipped the same 8.8cm L/71, vehicles were designed with a variety of guns, up to and including 128mm and 150mm guns – that's asking a lot of the 38 t/D chassis. Waffenträgers were considered for other platforms as well, which I will detail when we get to those vehicles in this post.

Source 1 2

Stats: This particular vehicle equipped a 10.5cm leFH, likely the leFH 18/40, in a fully rotating turret. This makes it an artillery piece; however, we can just ignore that and call it a TD by replacing the gun with the nearly identical 10.5cm Stu.H. 42 L/28, equipped by the likes of the Hetzer and StuG III G. Based on the final Ardelt-Krupp Waffenträger, we can expect the vehicle to weigh around 11 tons, have a top speed of 35 km/h, and up to an 180hp engine available. Lastly, armor would be 20mm max on the front, and as low as 5mm elsewhere.

In-game: For the sake of having a stock grind, it can start with the 7.5cm L/48 gun. In addition to the 105mm derp, I'd give it the 7.5cm Pak 42 L/70 (same one used on the
StuG III G). Overall, this would compare with the
wolverine - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines
Wolverine – slower, with worse gun depression, and even more lightly armored, but smaller, sneakier, and with a better low-caliber gun.


Tier 6: Jagdpanzer 38 D mit 7.5cm KwK L/70

Nickname: Jpz 38D

25Fi77L - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Image

Blueprint-only

History: A version of the Jagdpanzer 38 D, which equipped the aforementioned 7.5cm KwK L/70 in a centrally-mounted turret.

In-game: This is where the line really starts to define itself. It would have similar armor and mobility as the previous tank, differing only in armament. The stock gun would be the 7.5cm KwK L/70, a rather average gun at tier 6, so I'd also give it the 7.5cm KwK L/100, the gun used by the
panther - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Panther. To dial things up to 11, I'd give it a new top gun: the 7.5cm KwK L/105. Yes, this is a real thing that was built and tested (
image). Highly impractical, sure, but hey, they made it so I'm happy to use it. This would only be a slight improvement: loading AP/APCR/HE, it would have 208mm/252mm/38mm pen and 135/135/175dmg.

Tier 7: Krupp Egen-Waffenträger

Nickname: Egen WT

yEBK5Ll - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Image

Blueprint-only

History: Not much to say about this one. It would likely be nose-heavy, a problem we're about to make worse.

In-game: Same mobility and same armor as before, but the 8.8cm L/71 isn't special enough. Again, you get the historical gun as the stock gun, which compared to before offers a minor dip in penetration in exchange for more alpha. An additional gun will be the 8.8cm KwK L/100, a gun equipped by the
panther ii - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Panther II
(starting to see a trend here), followed by a new absurd top gun, the 8.8cm KwK L/105. Again, this would only be an iterative improvement over its predecessor: firing AP/APCR/HE, it would offer 235mm/270mm/44mm pen and 240/240/295dmg. Due to a lack of modules, adding silly gun options like this is the only real way to have a module grind.

Option 1: Don't change any existing tanks

The line would connect to the Rhm.-B. WT . The Sturer Emil would keep its connection to the Rhm for a patch, but would now lead into a new tier 8-10 line (detailed under Branch 3).

Option 2: Move a few things around

This will require the introduction of three more vehicles.


Branch 1: Low-Profile Vehicles


Tier 8: Krupp leichter Waffenträger

Nickname: Krupp L WT


Image

Blueprint-only

Only branches off the Egen WT

History: Another Krupp design, this has a mid-mounted turret with an open rear, which would provide more room to fit a larger gun. Historically, a 105mm option was considered – it was only an leFH 18, but that's all the excuse we need to give it more 105mm guns.

In-game: This will be the only tier 8 German tech tree TD to not get the 12.8cm KwK L/55. The stock gun would be the 10.5cm KwK L/68, the top gun used by the
tiger ii - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Tiger II.The middle gun will be the 10.5cm KwK L/70, the gun used by the
Löwe. The top gun would be the 10.5cm Pz.Jag. L/73, which would use AP/APCR/HE with 260mm/315mm/60mm pen and 390/390/510dmg.

Tier 9: Rhm.-Borsig Waffenträger (4-rollen laufwerk)

Nickname: Rhm-B. WT 4

F9T8RQX - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines


Image

Blueprint-only

History: Similar to our current Rhm-B WT, but with only four road wheels per side and a different turret design.

In-game: Historically, this equipped a 15cm gun, but I am ignoring that option as it doesn't fit the theme of this line. In keeping with the theme of sniping, this will use the 12.8cm L/55, found on vehicles like the
ferdinand - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Ferdinand
, as its stock gun. The next gun it equips is the 12.8cm L/66, the top gun on the Jagdtiger. In keeping with tradition, it will get a third, crazy top gun, the 12.8mm KwK L/75, adapted from the (very real) 128mm FlaK 45. Firing AP/APCR/HE, it would have 298mm/355mm/65mm pen and 560/560/700dmg. It would be incrementally better than the previous gun, offering minor improvements to accuracy, aim time, DPM, and penetration.

Tier 10: Rhm.-Borsig Waffenträger (6-rollen laufwerk)

Nickname: Rhm-B. WT 6


Image

Blueprint-only

History: Finally, we arrive at the Rhm-B WT model that we currently have in the game.

In-game: It will only have one gun available to it: the 12.8cm Pz.Jag. L/76. Firing AP/APCR/HE, it has 305mm/390mm/65mm pen and 560/560/700dmg. This is the tier 10 Jagdtiger-like gun we've all been waiting for. With fantastic accuracy and aimtime, it would be the premiere sniping TD, besides the
strv 103b - German Tech Tree Proposal: Assault TD and Turreted TD Lines

Strv 103B of course.


Branch 2: Rear-Turreted Vehicles


Tier 8: Krupp Egen-m. Einheitswaffenträger

Nickname: Egen-m WT


Image

Blueprint-only

Branches off the Egen WT and the Sturer Emil (temporarily)

History: A different design than the previous vehicles, this has six road wheels per side and a turret mounted closer to the rear of the vehicle. Historically, this would've equipped a 12.8cm L/55.

In-game: I'd give this the exact same guns and mobility as the current Rhm.-B. WT, as it is functionally a replacement for that vehicle.


Tier 9: Waffenträger auf Pz. IV


Tier 10: Grille 15

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