World of Warcraft

State of Survival Hunter in Shadowlands (Feels bad, remove Hunters mark)

wow7 - State of Survival Hunter in Shadowlands (Feels bad, remove Hunters mark)

The state of Survival Hunter on PTR (And Shadowlands Beyond) is so poor relative to the great spec we have in Battle for Azeroth.

This is a PvE Critique, from a Mythic substitute raider, former CE raider, M+15 in-time all seasons as Survival Hunter in BFA. I do not really do PvP so this is strictly a PvE post.

A big red flag is that Tranquilizing Shot and Kill Shot require a polearm… where there are several staves with agi available in the hunter loot pool… It kind of feels like nobody is playing the spec.

Tranq Shot for hunters now is also pretty whack. It's good for Marksman Lone Wolf, but your pets can also cast a lower CD version thats off your GCD… I don't get it.

The main build for Survival utilizes the key talent Mongoose Bite, its a spec-defining talent and the most fun min/max ability that exists for the spec. For the Unaware, Your first Mongoose Bite gives you Mongoose Fury for 14 seconds (8 GCDs) where you get 15% more Mongoose Bite damage each time you use it, up to 5 stacks. Your 6th and beyond within the 14s window retain the 5 Stack damage. I'll refer to a 5 stack Mongoose Bite as M5 throughout the post.

The damage on PTR vs Live for Survival Hunters feels incredibly off. Same gear, no talents or azerite:

PTR: Serpent Sting does the same damage as an M5 Mongoose Bite, and Kill Shot is added, superseding both in damage narrowly.

Live: Serpent Sting does damage slightly above an M2. If you are in a Mongoose Bite period, it is not worth casting Serpent Sting as it reduces your overall damage. If you take the tier 1 talent that occasionally makes it free, it is worth casting if it is free when you are low on focus.

On Live, your single target Mongoose periods are very rewarding if done correctly, getting 4 M5 Mongoose bites is not uncommon with iL477/130 gear, all slotted toward haste.

With the damage adjustment above, where you now must incorporating Serpent Sting into your Mongoose periods, you can barely edge out 1 M5 hit on PTR. It becomes more chaos with you add Kill Shot, which must be cast at least one time during an Execution Mongoose Period, sometimes twice.

The loss of the Primeval Intuition azerite trait also hurts significantly, as you have an entire Mongoose Bite (20 from the trait, 10 from the active regen between 3 GCDs). Primeval Intuition would be a great legendary candidate.


Hunter's Mark for Survival makes no flavor sense. 5% damage on a gcd is just so slow feeling. Survival AoE is fast paced, which is why I like it a lot. You use Wildfire Bomb, Carve, and if you have Guerilla tactics immediately drop another Wildfire Bomb and in 3 GCDs you do a buttload of damage and go back into jugging your ST rotation. The inclusion of Hunter's Mark slows down your damage in Mythic+ to such a radical degree, you can be doing 0 active damage spells 3-4 times within 1 pull because you're swapping targets so rapidly.

Solution: Hunter's Mark removed from Survival. Other threads on reddit hate it for MM/BM too, just trash it.

Kill Shot feels so weird as survival. You take out this peashooter and do more damage than a Mongoose Bite 5-stack that you do with your heavy polearm/staff. It will fit well in the rotation if it's changed slightly, Survival should have a unique replacement like:

"Go for the Throat – You and your pet lunge at an enemy for (Kill Shot Formula) damage to finish off an enemy. Generates 15 focus."

Perhaps make Flanking Strike a passive that increases the damage and focus gain to make it competitive, maybe. I know Flank is popular in PVP so this might not be the change.

Conduits: Deadly Tandem is so insane that at rank 1 it makes a talent, Bird of Prey, completely null and void. It feels like a prank its too good to be true.

2 minute CD, gain 20% damage for checks notes 1000% of 20 seconds… so 200 seconds… a full 80 seconds more than the cooldown…

This also means that if you're playing Mongoose Bite with this conduit, you are basically locked into Wildfire Infusion at talent tier 50.

The other three seem okay. Stinging Strike will by mandatory and probably help the Serpent Sting/Mongoose Fury problem but I don't have beta to do testing. The other 3 feel about equal in potential to me.

I ain't gonna go into Covenants, but the potential of Night Fae – Korayn's Renown 39 Slot, bonus damage in execute phase, seems huge to me.

idk man im just frustrated.

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