I am aware that these posts have been done to death. However, I would like to chime in my two cents on this matter, and hopefully bring some
calm and collected discussion to the forefront, rather than the "AH, CV BAD, KILL IT NOW" theme that appears to be resonating in this subreddit currently. With that out of the way, there are a few other things that I'm going to say at the start of my post.
- I do not have the best winrate in the game, or even close. I like to think that I know which end of the gun is the dangerous one, though.
- With 1) in mind here, this post is a mid-level player's views on how this whole thing has been playing out. I'm not a unicum, I don't have insane skill.
- My highest tier is t8. If I wanted, I could grind up to t10 in probably a month or so, but I don't want to.
And with that out of the way, here is the post proper.
Point number one: (Gunboat) Destroyers are not worthless anymore, nor do they significantly suffer.
This one may be hard to understand. Or conversely, it might be one of the simplest things ever. When playing a gunboat DD, you aren't primarily hoping to stealthily sneak up on battleships and torp them. You plan to engage enemy DDs, and contest capture points. You aren't a battleship killer, nor should you focus on that sort of play. Therefore, concealment can fall further down the list of important things you have to worry about. Furthermore, if you are spotted, you likely have enough health to survive getting shot at by half the enemy team. At least for a bit. I've found that while playing my Farragut and my Mahan, I am not having any more challenges with the CV meta than I was prior, in the radar-heavy meta. It may just be the fact that I play USN DDs, and the AA poses a threat to carriers, but I have found that the carrier tends to ignore the gunboat that is actively drawing fire from the enemy team, instead choosing to look for the (for example) Kamikaze R that is lurking around somewhere.
To make certain that it is the gunboat DD playstyle, not just USN DDs that are unaffected, I loaded up my Icarus, the tier 6 British DD. It has terrible anti-aircraft capability. It has a range of 1.5 KM on its AA guns. It should naturally be a target for the CV, yes? It has low(ish) health, and not only that, but its smokescreens only last 40 seconds. It has no way to hide. Yet, because (possibly) because it is a gunboat, and often gets lit up by the enemy, regardless of whether the CV spots it or not, the CV tends to ignore me.
My theory is that it is the fact that a destroyer that you know the position of, and can see, is far less dangerous than the one you don't see.
Point number two: (USN) AA cruisers do not actually do much to assist the team.
I play Cleveland. Specced for AA, no less. All the AA mods. My 14 point captain has Manual AA. I have superintendent, and run premium consumables to give me 5 charges of DefAA. I maybe use two of those a battle. Point is, I've got this really powerful AA cruiser, and it should shoot down planes like crazy. After all, that's what it did prior to 0.8.0. But it really doesn't. Until the CV comes for me. If the CV comes for me, and they fail to slingshot drop, they will likely lose the entire squadron, and not get off the attack if they are dive bombers. But if there's a DD 4KM away from me? I can't assist them. I shoot down no planes whatsoever. The continuous damage does not trigger until 3.5 KM, I believe. Unless the DD is hugging me very closely for an AA umbrella, I am going to do nothing to assist them in terms of AA. It's just not happening.
My biggest impact on the game, funnily enough, is being a radar cruiser in a two CV match. All the DDs smoke up, and I light them up for everyone to shoot at.
Point number three: The sector system is crap.
I think one of the most common gripes I have heard is about the lack of interaction with the CV. Honestly, I do not care about the interaction I am having. I am focused on the surface gameplay; I want my AA to manage itself, just like my secondaries. But for the love of all that is holy, WG, please abandon the sector system. It just doesn't cut it. When I'm playing DD, I already have enough to worry about, without the added necessity of resectoring my AA every five seconds.
I'd like to take a moment here in this monster of a post to suggest a solution. Add back in CTRL-Click as a selector, but make it so you can only select one flight in the squad. It ups the damage against that one flight, and makes it feel as if I am doing something. In the old RTS style gameplay, I had a choice about what squad I was going to shoot at. Was I going to shoot down the torp planes, or was I going to support my team's DDs by taking out the fighters permaspotting them. I'd like that choice back. It's a small choice, but it is a step back onto a path where players feel as if they can do something, and it's not an awful interface.
Either that, or kill the wait time to resector AA. Planes fly faster than I can resector, even in an AA specced DD. I'm aware that I'm supposed to "Predict the sector they will fly into," but when I am dodging and weaving, trying not to get hit, I'm not paying a ton of attention to the location of the planes, I'm making a vague assumption about their location while trying to not have my ship shot to pieces by the Atlanta and Cleveland that just showed up.
Point number four: Spotting needs to change
You've all heard this, this is the broken record section of the post. Spotting needs to change. I don't care really much how, as long as it changes away from the CV directing all the HE shells in the world to rain down on my head a minute and thirty seconds into the game. That just isn't any fun whatsoever. Minimap spotting only is an option, I vaguely recall that being a proposed radar change for the first 10 seconds of activation. I'm not sure whether it was implemented or not, but even that would have, in my opinion, drastic impacts on the lifespan of destroyers and light cruisers. I saw this earlier today, but I think it needs to be brought up again, which is the detection indicator when your planes are spotted. It can be used as a pseudo-RPF for the planes to find destroyers. Yes, I'm aware that it works with surface ships as well, but with surface ships, you don't go 200 knots. You go 30, maybe 45 tops.
(Except Leningrad, because soviet bias) But not only CV's can use that, so it's a good way to find ships in general. You can rule out the areas where ships are/are not by detection indicators. The problem, of course, is that CVs move faster. And speed is everything with this rework. That's just the biggest issue, as far as I see it. So it deserves its own section.
Point number five: Planes are really fast
Yes, I'm aware planes travel fast. I have no wish for plane mobility nerfs. I think the biggest issue is the speed combined with spotting. It just hasn't changed much from the RTS days, other than if a CV wants to permaspot you, they lose their strike capability.
Point number six: Planes have no turnaround time
When you F key back to your carrier, you can immediately launch another squadron. This, obviously, is to prevent players from being shut out of the game as their squadrons cool down. But there does need to be something. As it stands, CVs can launch rocket planes, zoom around the map, spot things, and then load up their preferred method of murder, and then go nuke things from orbit. I exaggerate here, with the "nuke from orbit" line, but I have seen some large numbers from CV strikes using HE DBs that rival BB AP citadel penetrations for damage. One problem here is not that the damage is large in its quantity, that much, is fine. The problem is the repeated nature of the damage, often with little intervals. Defensive AA fire, with a premium consumable, cools down in 80 seconds, far longer than the turnaround time for another strike. I have found that the only way to guarantee that very few planes make the strike, and fewer survive, is to use DefAA. It is the sole weapon that we have available against a carrier, and it is not usable frequently. This can be solved with turnaround times for planes. If plane squadrons had a cooldown time, it would help the repeated waves of planes coming to murder you problem that we experience today. The RTS CVs had a cooldown time in between launches of a squadron. That should exist still today. Be it 10, 20, or even 30 seconds, it would significantly impact the survivability of surface ships. It would allow time for repositioning, which is something that can succeed against a carrier, but currently only if a juicier target shows up. Wargaming, I beg of you, please add turnaround time to planes.
I'd like to wrap this up by saying that I have developed these opinions over this period of the new CVs. I used to play the old RTS CVs, and I enjoyed them. When I played against them, I enjoyed those matches, treasured them, even, because it was always a chance to use strategy. It wasn't "Throw planes against this target until it dies." You had to be cognizant that you were going to lose x planes if you went up against a Cleveland in y carrier. You didn't have unlimited planes to throw against the Cleveland until it dies. Now, I get killed routinely in my Cleveland by carriers. When a dedicated, AA specced cruiser with strong AA to begin with can't successfully fend of plane strikes, you know that there is a problem. It should be possible to spec your ship to make it near impossible for you to be hit by planes, if your base AA is high enough.
I thank you all for your time that you have taken to read this. I hope that I can provoke some thoughtful discussion on the subject, and provide a refreshing change from the typical "KILL CVs WITH FIRE" perspective that we have all heard so much of.
Source: Original link
© Post "[Long Post] DD and CL Captain on the CV Rework" for game World of Warships.
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