World of Warships

The core problem of CV in this game (wall of text)

WorldOfWarships4 - The core problem of CV in this game (wall of text)
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Hi, I have been watching this community going up in flame thanks to excellent rework that WG has done. What I'm gonna say has probably been said multiple times but I want to add my voice to this community hoping WG will finally recognize the issue.

I myself have been playing mainly CVs only. Why? I’ll explain it further down there but because playing surface ships is not fun. The main reason why playing surface ship in a CV rich environment is not enjoyable is in my opinion mainly due to lack of interaction.

Before we go into further explanation, I assume WG won't remove CVs from the game unless the game literally dies tomorrow. The reason is simply because they have invested a lot of money and time. Therefore I will consider "remove CV because xyz" or “CVs made heavy gun ships obsolete historically, so they do it here as well and don’t belong here” or anything similar as non-constructive argument in this thread here.


The core gameplay of any game is based on different interactions. In this game it is between different or same (surface ship) classes but mostly I think you can summarize those interactions in 3 big category:

  • Armor-Shell

  • Concealment

  • Consumable management.

Armor-Shell

Armor-Shell interaction is an interaction that requires players to understand his ships armor profile as well as the shell that flies to your ship (vise versa). If one possesses such knowledge, he can effectively defend himself from incoming shells or deal devastating strike even with cruiser AP against Battleship. For example Republique's AP shells are deadly against Cruisers and can overmatch most cruiser plating. However a good Moskva captain for example will either keep enough distance to utilize his 50 mm deck to nullify overmatch or angle enough to bounce the shell off with her thick belt armor. This means there is a skilled counter-play against such deadly AP shells. I didn't name explicit example but this category also includes torpedo-torpedo belt relation and such.

Concealment

Concealment interaction is basically a detection range combat. It is mostly found on flanking ships such as Zao or DDs for example. For instance Zao has excellent concealment and huge volley damage in trade of rather low RoF and lowest HP. A clever Zao will utilize such concealment to flank and find best timing and angles to land her hard hitting volley. Also a clever Zao will make sure he can disengage at anytime using his concealment to preserve his already low HP pool if she encounters heavy counter power. At the same time the opponent can try to utilize terrains to engage the Zao at shorter range where Zao cannot disengage. So there is a counter-play that requires your skill (map understanding).

Consumable management

Consumable management includes every possible usage of consumable in appropriate time. When do you pres heal or when do you use MBRB. When do I radar? When do I smoke up without being threatened by radar or torps to leave? There are many types of consumables and its a complex system that often requires you multiple game understanding and skill such as map awareness (radar, smoke, heal), timing (MBRB, TRB, DCP), etc at the same time.


Now lets look at CV:

Armor-Shell

There is little room for dodge. Unless the striking CV completely misses his aim, there is always a very good chance you will be hit by at least ½ of CV’s aramements. For some ships especially DDs, this can be already devastating enough. However there are are not enough possibility to utilize your armor to negate incoming weapons either. Let's look at some examples: Torpedo bombers vs DD torpedoes. DD torpedo does a lot damage per torpedo for sure but they have to travel rather long distance and you can dodge those torpedoes if you haven't sailed in straight line for past 5 minutes. Furthermore even if you can't manage to dodge all, you can still your turn the ship try to minimize the hits or try to get the torps on your belt instead of bow or aft for damage reduction bonus. Torpedo bombers however, you know they are coming but they will drop at point blank distance at you and skilled CV players will manage to hit your bow or aft most of times. This is because torpedo bombers can usually choose the path of approach freely thanks to good mobility. Therefore there is no or little utilization of any armor, preemptive dodging or whatsoever. Some ships have 50 mm of deck armor which is meant to provide excellent protection against usual cruiser HE and AP overmatch. However USN HE DBs and Tiny Tim Rockets have armor penetration that exceeds such armor thickness. In my opinion, it is no problem for a CV to have such HE penetration but it is a problem when it is easy to use at the same time also. USN HE DBs and Tiny Tim rockets are very easy to use and very effective against any type of ship. They smack the target with huge HE damage and can set the target on fire in addition.

Read:  Zao: In Memoriam
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Concealment

CV practically negates all possible flanking and concealment play. Let’s look at Zao once again. Zao is as I mentioned a very concealment dependent ship. In a CV game, if Zao tries to flank and utilize the concealment, she will get punished simply because CV can spot Zao without any problem. Surely CV alone takes quite a lot time to sink a Zao but spotting means there will be fire supports from team. For a ship like Zao which has low HP pool, she cannot hold long under a sustained fire. You may ask “well Zao has AA”. Yes she has but it is not enough to threaten away the planes. There is not a lot you can do against a CV when she tries to strike you. In the end, Zao gets punished for trying to play after her strength.

Consumable management

There aren't a lot consumables that interact with CVs. Basically DCP, DFAA and Fighters. Having DFAA is better than having none at all. However unlike pre rework where DFAA spread the aim and increased your possibility to dodge attacks regardless of sheer strength of AA, now it just adds straight up more AA damage. This isn't helping ships with poor base AA at all especially when skilled CV players can dodge flaks. A Zao with DFAA will not manage to prevent any strikes from CV. CV will most likely success at least 1 strike, perhaps more depending on plane type. Not to mention there will be incoming shells from CV's allied ships because he is constantly spotting you giving no chance to disengage. DFAA requires no skill or game understanding at all. You simply press when planes arrive and same goes for Fighters.


At the end of day I fear we won’t come to optimal solution for CV-problems unless we address the core interaction between CV and surface ships: AA

Read:  AA render delay/rocket aiming (complaint)

AA is the biggest and most important interaction between CV and surface ships because this decides the outcome of a strike assuming CV captain knows how to aim. Depending on size of AA strength, CV will choose its target or get punished for underestimation. The current problem of AA however shares common problem as pre-rework AA: There is no player input. Yes, you could manually select target pre-rework for just straight +30% DPS bonus or you can select your priority zone now but this involves no skill at all. It just ADDS on everything which AI does for you. One may argue that Flak bubbles are skill involving interaction. This statement ignores the fact that surface ships have no control on Flak. The shooting, leading, aiming: every single one of them are AI controlled. It doesn’t matter whether you are unicum or potato.

The only skill involved comes purely from CV’s side: Dodging Flak bubbles. This means surface ships have no control over the outcome of strike and this leads to frustration. This is a bad design by nature. In every battle between surface ships, the outcome is mostly dependent on skill. Yes there are some RNG (like citadel from unexpected angle or unusual fire chance luck) but it is usually somewhat manageable and doesn’t happen every single time. This is why the AA mechanics need some kind of player’s input that is not just adding some raw DPS or whatsoever. No captain skills, no balance tweak will ever address the core issue unless AA mechanics are revamped to involve player skill which may look something like (one of) these:

  • Manual shooting of AA guns like Battlestation series
  • Selecting different patterns, distribution, altitudes, fuse time of flak bubbles
  • Manual leading of flak bubbles in a bird eye's view (pre-rework CV esque view)

For these reasons, I sincerely request WG to consider these aspects and to rework AA completely in to something that involves surface ship’s skill and input.

Feel free to add or to criticize my perspective

Source: Original link


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