Battlefield 5

Battlefield V “TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert” Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis

Battlefield 6 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
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BF playerbase: don't mess with the TTK pls

DICE: *messes with TTK*

BF playerbase: *
1202890636497752064 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis

stops playing BFV*

DICE:

DICE

https://twitter.com/Indigowd/status/1202890636497752064

After four attempts at lengthened time-to-kill (Closed Alpha 2, Dec. 2018, 5.2, 5.2.2), enter DICE's fifth attempt – Update 6.2. Despite the ramblings of many content creators and community members, this is not a time-to-kill revert. Update 6.2's time-to-kill and weapon balance is still markedly worse than the standard set by Update 5.0, and aggravates many of BFV's underlying issues.

As usual, my compatriot /u/NoctyrneSAGA and I have data presented in pretty charts. Update 5.2.2, or "TTK 0.33" is linked here. As usual, my guide to reading and interpreting the charts is below:

  • The hitrater assumes perfect control of vertical recoil, aimed at center mass.
  • Each picture has four charts are concatenated into one. The top two charts are for aimed down sights fire, and the bottom two are for hipfire.
  • The left two charts measure the gun with full upgrades on the left side of the specialization tree (hipfire upgrades, rapid fire, etc.).
  • The right two charts measure the gun with full upgrades on the right side of the specialization tree (ADS accuracy upgrades, etc.).
  • FTK: Frames to kill. To get TTK (time to kill), just multiply numbers by 16.66. Represented in colors, designated on the right side.
  • E: Expected frames to kill. A value factoring in average time to kill and the probability of the 15 round burst actually killing the target.
  • U: Average frames to kill. A value that is the mean of all the instances where the gun actually killed.
  • Frequency: The number of times a gun killed, out of 100,000 (100K).
  • None of these stats apply to Firestorm, since guns are now non-lethal in Firestorm, and no one plays it anyways.
  • Note that I'm considering 100hp when talking about guns. Health attrition brings in an entire extra mess of inconsistency.

Synopsis

Is the time-to-kill back to what it used to be?

No.

What did this patch accomplish?

Don't get me wrong – Update 6.2 is a net positive for the game. Some guns are fully reverted back to their 5.0 strength, and this is great! The rest of the weapons should follow. Anything semi-automatic is effectively reverted to its strength in 5.0 (self-loading rifles, semi-automatic rifles, and pistol carbines), as well as shotguns (despite the community managers saying that shotguns went unchanged, they did revert back to their 5.0 strength, which can be seen on
sym.gg).

SMGs, in comparison to 5.0, essentially got +1 BTK after 20m. ARs, LMGs, and MMGs got +1 BTK after 30m. Along with this, recoil was reverted to 5.0 values.

For reference, SMG damage models look similar to that of BF1's (not good!), and ARs, LMGs, and MMGs have damage models similar to BFV 5.0 SMGs (also not good!).

Recoil was also reverted to 5.0 levels, and this in conjunction with damage models that are still worse than 5.0 cause a lot of guns to kill slower than they did in 5.2/5.2.2/6.0.

On a very positive note, 5.2 ammo capacities were kept, which is awesome. I'll genuinely applaud this, as it alleviates pressure from attrition. I for one want to play a first-person shooter where I can actually go and shoot people.

BTK is much better than 5.2.2, so what's the problem?

5.0 recoil was specifically tuned with 5.0 damage models in mind. Low RoF SMGs were supposed to out-DPS high RoF SMGs at around 20m, with 5BTK extending to 30m to give them a comfortable range to excel in. Low RoF ARs and LMGs were to supposed to beat their high RoF counterparts to 30m, with 5BTK extending to 50m to give them a comfortable area of dominance. Gunplay as of Update 5.0 was very intentionally balanced, and recoil values were meticulously chosen to enable this.

Update 6.2 matches recoil values with damage models they are not intended for, creating a mess. Low RoF guns are badly hurt by 6.2, as they don't have the damage models necessary for them to have a clear area to excel in. With SMGs having a 5BTK to 20m, high RoF guns still kill quickly to excel at their intended range, while low SMGs are a 6BTK by the time high RoF guns are inaccurate enough to cede a meaningful accuracy advantage to their slow-firing counterparts.

What's the solution?

Well, you could increase horizontal recoil and spread for faster-firing guns and/or lower these values for slower-firing guns, but faster-firing guns are already bordering upon unrealistic and unpleasant quantities of recoil. I've fired an MG 42 in real life – it does not kick as hard as it does in BFV. With nerfing faster-firing guns being a non-starter, there's only so much room to buff low RoF guns as well, when they already have very low spread and recoil.

The solution is a full revert to 5.0 damage values, as that is what the gunplay of this game is designed for. In fact, 5.0 damage values were still inadequate, and left room for improvement.

Automatics should have a 15m min BTK range, which allows them to actually kill well in CQB. The 10m 4BTK range is inadequate when many rooms on maps like Rotterdam, Narvik, OP Underground, etc. are more than 10m wide. 15m 4BTK for automatics would allow the low RoF guns to shine more, especially since they have accurate enough hipfire to take advantage of the +5m boost, while faster firing guns don't. 15m 4BTK would also allow ARs to gain more relevance over the semis, which they desperately need more than ever.

The 20m 5BTK range for SMGs is atrocious, and hurts the low RoF SMGs. The 30m 5BTK range in 5.0 is great, but 35m is where it should be. The +5m bump helps low RoF SMGs clear ~75th percentile engagement ranges better, while high RoF SMGs aren't accurate enough to really take advantage of this.

To be clear: this is not a revert.

Don't accept half measures as "good", because this isn't. Being better than the TTK measures implemented by 5.2 and 5.2.2 isn't a high bar, because those changes were garbage. BFV 5.0's time-to-kill is the bare minimum for "good", and as I mentioned above, that still had room for improvement.


Charts

Charts (with other TTK experiments for comparison!)

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GunTTK 0.5 "The Big Oof"Pacific "The Standard"TTK 0.25 "The Big Soak"TTK 0.33 "Appeasement"TTK 0.LOL "Not A Revert"
AG m/426BpjZS8 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChartChartChart
Autoloading 8ChartChartChartChart
Chart
BAR (720 RPM)N/AN/A5f1c41a18c4a3527ba4e6ebbe9b45445 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
BAR (490 RPM)N/AN/AChartChartChart
Breda PG 1935N/AChartChartChartChart
BrenChartChartChartChartChart
C96 CarbineN/AChartChartChartChart
Darne M1922N/AChartChartChartChart
Erma EMPChart
Chart
2WkKD8X - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
FG-42ChartChartChartChart
Chart
Gewehr 1-5Q6YVwih - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChartChartChart
Gewehr 43
Chart
0kKLD19 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChartChart
KE7ChartChartChartChartChart
Lewis GunChartChartChartChartChart
Lewis Gun (strong)ChartChartChartChartChart
LS/26N/A
Chart
zGobs0c - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
M1A1 CarbineChartChartChartChart
Chart
M1907gmXsfx8 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChartChartChart
M1919A6N/AChartChartChartChart
M1928A1 (Thompson)ChartChartChart
Chart
QvcMREC - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
M1 GarandN/APINGChartChartChart
M2 CarbineN/AN/AN/AChartChart
M3 Grease GunN/AN/AN/AChartChart
MAB 38N/AChartChartChart
Chart
MadsenN/AuF906Ii - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
Chart
ou0tGjJ - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
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7MyGZMk - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
MAS-44N/AChartChart
Chart
maiIJs5 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
MG 34ChartChartChartChartChart
MG 42ChartChartChartChartChart
MP 28ChartChartChartChartChart
MP 34ChartChartChartChart
Chart
MP 40bP9lsrs - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
Chart
ziYsbFy - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
P08 CarbineN/AChartChartChartChart
Ribeyrolles M1918N/AChart
Chart
1B6XRPp - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
IOQVKio - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
RSC 1917ChartChartChart
Chart
6frp6hz - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
Selbstlader 1906
Chart
soeSkuN - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
9ugObm2 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
Selbstlader 1916ChartChartChartChart
Chart
S2-200N/AozXeKNE - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
x3Y3Pv1 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
StenChart
Chart
xGrGdIP - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
fWFj18z - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChart
Sturmgewehr 1-5ChartChartChartChartChart
StG-44
Chart
IbGpp19 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChartChart
Suomi
Chart
Lhiwx1r - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChart
Chart
10Q3Oev - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
Turner SMLEChart
Chart
ToIADRz - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChartChart
Type 2AN/AN/AN/AChartChart
Type 11N/AN/AN/AChartChart
Type 97N/AN/AN/AChartChart
Type 100N/AChartChartChartChart
Vickers K (VGO)ChartChart
Chart
LSeLJtC - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChartChart
Wz38mN/A
Chart
C6C2SXj - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
C6C2SXj - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
yI3exM9 - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and AnalysisChart
ZH-29ChartChart
Chart
brC13Wj - Battlefield V "TTK 0.LOL: Not A Revert" Frames-to-Kill Charts and Analysis
Chart
Chart
ZK-383N/AChartChartChartChart

Analysis

You can really see the impact of how matching 5.0 recoil values with bad damage models impacts the slower-firing guns – weapons like the M3 Grease Gun, MP40, Sten, ZK-383 (514 RPM), etc. now kill slower from 30-75m than they did in 5.2.2. This is not a revert, it worsened the time-to-kill of many weapons. For all intents and purposes, the <600 RPM SMGs are even worse than they were during 5.2 to 6.0.

As I said, slow-firing guns got shafted, while faster-firing guns perform similarly or slightly better, though they did not escape unscathed. Faster-firing guns got enough of a recoil increase where they perform similarly to where they did before at their intended ranges (for the most part). Guns like the FG 42 and M2 Carbine are better from 0-30m, but worse than they were at 30+m. Some guns like the BAR (720 RPM) almost flat-out kill slower than they did before. The Type 2A, for those who are wondering, has reached levels of inaccuracy we haven't seen in a BF gun since the SMG 08, as it can fail to kill at even 10m. E values are similar, as higher inaccuracy and higher damage models can give similar DPS to its inverse.

For automatics, the revert might as well not have happened at all. Time-to-kill is very similar to 5.2.2, but with harder to use guns. For the most part, you have guns that kick like 5.0, but kill like 5.2.2.

Now to the kings of BFV: the semi-automatics. Their damage models and rates of fire got reverted to their 5.0 values. The Assault SARs have +1 BTK past 100m compared to before, but this doesn't matter, as >100m engagements very rarely happen. For all intents and purposes, anything semi-automatic was just as good as it was in 5.0. You cannot go wrong picking anything in these categories. Any Assault SAR, Recon SLR, or Recon Pistol Carbine is very good.

The files of BFV retained the recoil modifiers and various bullet types for different guns, so it appears that DICE has left room for more potential jarring TTK changes in the future.


Recommendations

With many automatics getting shafted and performing worse than they did in 5.2.2/6.0, I will be basing my picks around what didn't get shafted.

Assault:

  • M1907 (RRRR): Probably the best automatic weapon in the game. The recoil increases didn't hurt it much, as in 5.0, it had low horizontal recoil due to its small magazine. 5.2.2/6.0 hurt it really badly with a terrible damage model, and 6.2 alleviates this.
  • Turner (LLLR): One of the kings of 5.0 and previous, the Turner is back and better than ever, mostly due to its competition being awful. The Turner offers a great capacity and unparalleled midrange DPS in a game where automatics no longer than even good midrange DPS.
  • MAS-44 (LLLR): Pretty much a Turner alternative.
  • M1 Garand (LLLX): Pretty much a MAS-44 alternative. Heavy Load makes it a G43 alternative.
  • G 1-5 (RXXR): Probably the best gun in the game now. Even though it drops to 4BTK past 30m, it doesn't matter when automatics are pretty awful past 30m now. Its DPS between 10 and 30m is one of the best in the game as well, and its double hipfire specs can make it competitive at <10m if you really want. With low recoil, low downtime, and great (but not best DPS), this gun is for farming servers into oblivion.
  • Literally any other SAR: I think the ones mentioned above are the best, but no SAR is bad, especially in a game of poorly performing automatics.

Support:

  • Any shotgun: With the ammo-throwing role being more superfluous, the Support's true niche is playing up close now, and shotguns allow you to excel in this, as they were reverted to their 5.0 damage models. I recommend the M37 Ithaca or 12G Auto.
  • Why are you playing this class? Play Assault if you wanna play non-shotgun.

Medic:

  • Type 2A (LLLR) / Suomi (LRRR) / Thompson (LRRR): Since these are solid 0-20m weapons, and 6.2 mostly just hurts >20m damage output, pick guns that are good at their niche. The Suomi offers the best damage output, the Type 2A offers the lowest downtime (fast reload), and the Thompson is a decent compromise between the two.
  • MP28 (LLLL or RRRR): With a large magazine and great hipfire specs, the MP28 is a flexible alternative to the above, especially with its lower recoil.
  • ZK-383 (XLLR): Another flexible pick, due to having Lightened Stock and High-Velocity Bullets.
  • Bolt-action carbines: Use the Jungle Carbine or Tromboncino. Even though SARs and SLRs aren't garbage anymore, so BACs aren't dominant, they're still decent weapons.

Recon:

  • ZH-29 (RRRL): The previous king of long range is more dominant than ever. While enemy Supports can tickle you with 7BTK min LMGs, you can just plug people in the face with two shots and drop them. Bolt-action velocity buffs are nice, but the ZH-29 will always be the ranged king.
  • Model 8 (RLLR): With Trigger Job bringing it to 224 RPM again, the Model 8 is the fastest-killing midrange gun again. While the small magazine and often finicky reload can make it hard to use, it's hard to ignore how insanely fast its time-to-kill can be.
  • C96 Carbine (RLLR): While the P08 Carbine is a great pick, the C96 is the better pistol carbine for all intents and purposes. The full-auto spec option makes it way easier to use, but the RLLR path giving you both hipfire and both strafing options is extremely good. The P08's better damage model past 75m is superfluous, as these guns' velocity will limit you far before that range.

Feel free to ask me or /u/NoctyrneSAGA anything.


BONUS: CHECK OUT SYM.GG

Source: Original link


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