Destiny 2

An extremely long post about how Jade Rabbit needs a serious rework.

destiny2 3 - An extremely long post about how Jade Rabbit needs a serious rework.
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To keep it simple: The Jade Rabbit is underperforming as an exotic weapon. It's outshined by Dead Man's Tale and even certain legendary scouts. You can keep reading for lots of damage data collected by a dude obsessed with Jade Rabbit who just wants it to be better than it is.

About six months ago, it was finally brought to Bungie's attention (or at least they said they were aware of it) that the Jade Rabbit wasn't working as intended. At some point in the past year, it's exotic perk broke and was later fixed… but it wasn't brought back to it's original glory. If you're unfamiliar with the perk, chaining body shots increases the amount of damage that a precision shot will do. In addition, it will partially refill the magazine on said precision shot.

Jade Rabbit's original appeal was that with carefully planned shots you could effectively keep the magazine filled completely… But it isn't possible anymore. This is how the ammo return currently operates:

Note: This is assuming all body shots are landed in sequence and the final shot is a precision shot, which would activate the perk to increase damage and refill the magazine. This is also assuming the weapon is fully loaded for each iteration (10 rounds).

Total Shots FiredBody shotsMagazine remainingTotal Ammo Returned
19
2191
3292
4393
5494
6584
7674
8764
9854
10944

After a total of five shots (four body, one precision), the gun reaches a limit to the return on it's magazine refill.

Let's look at an example:

You land six shots on an ogre – five body, one precision. Your last shot does bonus damage and partially refills the magazine. You now have 8 rounds in the magazine. Awesome, right? From here, you can continue to take shots on enemies and see the weapon return ammo every time you chain body shots and land a precision hit. Eventually, though, you're going to need to reload – you can never net positive with this weapon.

As fun and deadly accurate as this weapon may be, it's no better than a Night Watch with Subsistence and Rampage. Subsistence is MORE POWERFUL than Jade Rabbit's exotic perk 'The Fate of All Fools'; A single bullet (usually with a Rampage or Kill Clip bonus) has the capability of killing a red bar enemy and returning two rounds to the magazine, resulting in a net positive. In a giant field of enemies, this is far from difficult. It doesn't even require you to hit precision shots, it just loads two shots every time you kill something.

I can't tell you exactly WHEN the perk stopped working to provide better ammo economy, but it was most likely sometime around Shadowkeep. The biggest issue is that the gun is barely used, and there is very little data on it's previous iterations. If somebody could find me some information on how it operates, I'd truly appreciate it. D1 Jade Rabbit still performs 'the old way', and I may need to collect data on it's economy there to truly compare the two.

"Okay", you say, "It can't compete with a legendary scout when you're clearing lost sectors or running around in Trostland. It still has great single-target damage potential."

Enter the next problem in the equation – Dead Man's Tale. An absolute powerhouse of a weapon, capable of completely DECIMATING a single target, and has a chance of rolling with Vorpal Weapon as well. Let's take a look at Dead Man's Tale and Jade Rabbit's damage potentials.

Tested on Greg's cousin in K1 Revelation, Dead Man's Tale does a base damage amount of 6030 on a precision hit, and Jade Rabbit does 3612. Not a huge deal here, because Dead Man's Tale has a slower rate of fire than Jade Rabbit (this is excluding the hip-fire bonus after masterworking… which we'll ignore for now). At the MAXIMUM amount of damage, a single shot from Dead Man's Tale can do 7289, while Jade Rabbit can only muster up 4620.

Now for a comparison of single target damage. Here's the breakdown of Jade Rabbit's damage potential on a single target. Again, these are consecutive shots on a single target, with the final shot being a precision hit. All body shots are the same – 2058.

Shots FiredBody Shots LandedDamage On Precision HitTotal Damage Done
136123612 (No body shot)
2138545912
3241368252
43437810552
54462012852
65462014910
76462016968
87462019026
98462021084
109462023142

And Here's the damage potential of Dead Man's Tale on a single target. Here, we're only going to be looking at precision shots and the damage potential through the entire magazine. Remember, the first shot is with zero stacks of Cranial Spike. We reach x5 stacks after landing our sixth shot.

Shots FiredDamage On Precision HitTotal Damage Done to Target
152265226
2561210838
3601116849
4642323272
5685030122
6728937411
7728944700
8728951989
9728959278
10728966567
11728973856
12728981145
13728988434
14728995723

Now before you correct me to complain that we haven't used all of the shots in the magazine on that Jade Rabbit, let's look at the optimal DPS available and see what the total damage is that we can pull off. In order to do this, we need to calculate all of the shots landed on body as well as critical hits, with the absolute BEST return on ammo as well.

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The best route, with the highest ammo returns and most damage done, is a whopping 40 shots, which is close to impossible to pull off perfectly. But, here's what it looks like:

Shots TakenShots RemainingTotal Damage Done
5 (4 body, 1 precision)912852
5 (4 body, 1 precision)825704
5 (4 body, 1 precision)738556
5 (4 body, 1 precision)651408
5 (4 body, 1 precision)564260
5 (4 body, 1 precision)477112
4 (3 body, 1 precision)387664
3 (2 body, 1 precision)295916
2 (1 body, 1 precision)1101828
1 precision105440

Jade Rabbit can manage 105,440 damage over 40 shots, and Dead Man's Tale can manage 95,723 over just FOURTEEN rounds. This is assuming you have absolutely perfect aim with Jade Rabbit and land every one of these shots with the correct order / pacing every time. Against something like an ogre, there's a very good chance that you're not going to manage that, as the aim assist and bullet magnetism on Jade Rabbit is… very powerful. In most cases, you're going to accidentally hit the target in the head instead of the body, unless you're firing at a massive target or are close enough to differentiate (which isn't the point of a scout rifle). On top of that, you're looking at the ammo return completely failing if you manage to miss a shot, rendering all of this pointless.

To add to the leg-up that it has, Dead Man's Tale gains a damage bonus from Cranial Spike on precision AND non-precision hits. While you need to land precision shots to keep the perk active, Cranial Spike provides a damage bonus regardless of what you're hitting.

And, just because we're here already, how about some damage figures for a Vorpal Weapon roll on that Dead Man's Tale?

Shots FiredDamage On Precision HitTotal Damage Done
160106010
2645412464
3691219376
4738726763
5787734640
6838343023
7838351406
8838359789
9838368172
10838376555
11838384938
12838393321
138383101704
148383110087

Pretty gnarly numbers for only 14 rounds from a scout rifle, no? In it's current form, Jade Rabbit is nothing but a shell of a weapon with incredible potential. I want it to stay in my hands, and I will continue to use it because it feels great in general. But it's not the weapon it could be.

Before we wrap up, there are a couple other things I wanted to touch on in case this gets any sort of traction.

  1. Jade Rabbit doesn't function properly in Crucible. It did at one point, but it certainly doesn't now. I have seen a damage bonus from chaining body shots only a handful of times, and it is seemingly random. I went through testing in Crucible with a friend and was unable to consistently cause a damage bonus with the weapon. There were a few times where the final precision number was higher, but it was often only showing up when that shot resulted in a kill. I've seen this before with other weapons, and to my understanding that last number is just a lie half the time. If you can chime in on this with some godly Crucible knowledge, please do.
  2. The last time Jade Rabbit received any sort of changes, armor-piercing rounds were changed to high-caliber rounds. Shots from Jade Rabbit STILL rip through multiple enemies like it has armor-piercing rounds. I don't know what to make of that, but it's something I noticed in testing, and I wanted to bring it up.
  3. Dead Man's Tale is a 120 RPM scout rifle, but fires at 150 RPM from the hip with no damage reduction. This has the potential of increasing the DPS of the weapon SUBSTANTIALLY, shadowing Jade Rabbit even further.
  4. Polaris Lance returns ammo on headshots. Not on kills. Headshots. Polaris Lance is also more powerful than Jade Rabbit.
  5. While I generally think that scouts should be more powerful, I'm not making that argument here. This also isn't a post intending to nerf Dead Man's Tale. This is specifically intended to shed some light on the problems with Jade Rabbit, and advocate a solution.
  6. Bring back SRL for the love of the Traveler

Jade Rabbit is an incredibly fun weapon with an absolutely beautiful genesis in Destiny, and it's collecting dust in 90% of player's vaults. That, or they don't even have one at their disposal because they dismantled it after it didn't impress them.

So what would I like to see?

  1. Jade Rabbit's ammo economy needs to be reworked. The gun needs to reward skilled and/or planned shooting by allowing for a net positive magazine return. To reiterate, using a Night Watch with Subsistence and Rampage results in being able to fire indefinitely. Jade Rabbit eventually needs to be reloaded. It's an exotic… but it just doesn't feel like one. While the magazine will refill at any number of shots before a precision hit, LOSING ammo by firing too many shots makes very little sense to me. Again, reward great gunplay with a perk that feels truly exotic.
  2. Jade Rabbit's damage bonus needs to be reworked. There should be a significant difference in damage between 4 body + 1 precision and 9 body + 1 precision. I'm not asking it to turn into a fat man for that tenth shot, but it should be doing a lot more than it does now.
  3. A balance between damage bonus and ammo return would be a perfect solution. More ammo returned at lower chained shots (resulting in less damage), and less ammo returned on higher chained shots (because it's outputting more damage). This would allow the user to send out a huge chunk of damage to one target, but would then require them to carefully land shot after shot to refill the magazine without having to stop the gunfire.

To sum everything up and provide a TL;DR for those of you who just want the meat of this:

  • Jade Rabbit is outshined by Subsistence scout rifles with Rampage / Kill Clip, and ESPECIALLY a Subsistence rolled Dead Man's Tale.
  • Dead Man's Tale has higher damage output in 14 rounds than Jade Rabbit can manage in 40
  • You got a Vorpal Dead Man's Tale? Just dismantle your Jade Rabbit.
  • I love Jade Rabbit and I'm a sad boy because it feels awful
  • You should read everything because it took me two days to put this together and I'm passionate about Jade Rabbit's future in Destiny.

Source: Original link


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