Destiny 2

Trials of the Feedback

destiny2 10 - Trials of the Feedback
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Here we go…

In light of the most recent week of Trials of Osiris, I think the community as a whole, whether it is content creators, those who warm up with an hour of kovaaks every day, or casual players – we all have something to complain about regarding Trials. These problems range and differ depending on the group it generally comes from and is then thrown into a cesspool of unorganized information for Bungie employees to sort through.

Speaking to different people of different groups, it is clear that there are many misconceptions about what specifically is wrong and what are ultimately good and bad solutions. I am not saying that Bungie doesn't know the correct fixes for Trials… but something is clearly off and the number of posts and videos about the failures of Trials this weekend is if anything – an proof of my point.

Through this post, I wish to inform everyone of what is regarded as big problems with Trials from all perspectives, dispel any common “solutions” that some may recommend, and to suggest solutions that would actually benefit the game instead of digging itself into another hole.

The many, many – problems with Trials

We often only get scattered information from one specific perspective of the spectrum – either a video from a prominent pvp player in the community or a reddit post from a casual player; Bungie ends up having to look at all of this information to try to piece it together and cater to both sides. After looking for hours through points casual people and content creators/sweats have made about the central problems to trials, I have organized it into an infographic so it is not a jumble of orderless information.


Link To Infographic: Link


There are NOT ALL of the problems that have been voiced out by the community about Trials – these are simply the main points and reasoning of people I have interviewed and videos / posts I have read up on Trials. This picture is just a way for people to visualize the criticism of Trials and how different problems perpetuate other ones.

Bad Solutions to Trials – and why

Bungie created Trials with a few central tenants which guide their decision making (not saying their decisions are done well) – its their vision for Trials and – personally agreeing, I think should be keystones that we build solutions around and decide what is and isn't a good method to solving problems. Here are some of the tenants I believe in:

  1. Trials is meant to be difficult and prestigious
  2. Trials is meant to be appealing to all players, sweats and casuals alike
  3. Trials is not meant for everyone
  4. Players in trials should always be rewarded in some way depending on their time investment into the gamemode – no matter if they win or lose
  5. Players should always feel like there is a way to win if they try hard enough
  6. Trials loot should require time and effort to obtain
  7. A win in trials should be earned through effort and dedication

With that all said and done, I think we can now tackle some misconceptions of what possible solutions are and which ones are not viable.

Bad Solution #1: Make lucrative trials loot earlier in the card – such as at 3 wins

  • Putting the good loot earlier in the card isn't a viable and healthy solution for the long term. Sure it might make the casual players more satisfied as they get their desperado roll messenger without having to go flawless or too far into the card, but it creates a whole cacophony of unhealthy situations for the community. As seen last week (where messenger came out and was the 3 win reward), casual players will resort to jumping off maps to farm the bounty, and sweats would 1 win reset farm with a wealth passage to farm tokens. Putting loot earlier to make it artificially easier to obtain also violates the tenant number 5 and goes against what Trials should be; casuals will log on to throw matches to get their weapon asap while sweats will token farm at 1 win.

Bad Solution #2: Remove stasis from pvp entirely

  • Stasis recently has been so ridiculously dominant that I hardly see any other subclasses besides chaos reach being used. However, outright removing stasis is not a good solution – so much infrastructure, armor and mods are already synergized with the class. Removing something so big in pvp that most players use in pve betrays how destiny is supposed to be a space magic game where we can use weapons and abilities in both pvp and pve situations. We need heavy changes to stasis and to many of their subclasses (cough cough behemoth titan super) rather than prohibiting stasis from pvp.

Relatively decent solutions to Trials

Below is a list of some of the solutions I had thought of with advice from my clan and some inspiration from some content creators (will be linked below).

Solution #0: Make a proper and obviously working anti-cheat

  • The worst thing to go against in Trials is a cheater. There often is no counter-play, you and your team are hopeless against someone with 99% HS accuracy with 1k+ kills, or even worse – someone spamming a GL at 900 rpm across the map on round one. This is a problem that both casuals and sweats face while playing Trials, while not everyone encounters them to the same extent, it is always the worst feeling. Let me be clear here: suing and getting rid of big cheat distributors is not how you fix things. There will always be a site or group that sells/distributes cheats, there will always be a demand for them no matter what you do. Sure suing and getting rid of these distributors is nice, but ultimately you’re just cutting off heads of a hydra, only to have them regrow into many more heads afterwards. I put this as solution #0 because this is something we can’t solve with a few patches but rather, is a long and arduous battle that will always be there.

Solution #1 (option A): Fix card based matchmaking and include very weak SBMM

  • Although not a popular opinion, there should be implementation of SBMM to ONLY mitigate outliers from matching against each other is fair to an extent. Only employ SBMM to prevent certain matches from occurring if their kd’s are too far apart. I think a 1.2 kd average team should still match a 2.0 kd team, but there are outliers and insane instances of a 0.5 kd team matching with a 3.0+ kd team of people who have gone flawless 30 times already. Using a threshold for matchmaking to prevent games such as these will allow more casual teams to have less instances where they feel hopeless. This also makes sweatier players put at least some sort of effort to win and feel as though the win was deserved – this prolongs player retention and player satisfaction from a game of Trials.

Solution #1 (option B): Make matchmaking skewed to match people who haven’t gone flawless that week with those who haven’t also either

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  • It is simply not fun playing against 1 win token farmers and people who are on their 6th win on the first game for someone who just started playing trials for that week. Many casual players are immediately put off when they log into a week where its just sweats straight from game one either gatekeeping or farming. If you are to ask a casual player how many times they have matched someone with 2kd+ and has already 2 or 3 flawless at least that week on game one or two, it would be ALOT.

Instead what we could do is not completely separate the queue between those who are flawless and those who have not been, but rather make the matchmaking system “prefer” certain teams against others. As time goes on and casual players rejoin the weekly active Trials population, we can loosen this skewed matchmaking so it is just purely connection based and card based; but as for now, a large portion of casual players are immediately put off Trials as their experience of the first few games is always against farmers and gatekeepers.

Solution #1 (option C): Remove card-based matchmaking due to connection issues and facing same sweat teams in the last few games

  • This is an idea that was brought up by Grenader Jake and I think is a change that has a lot of merit. I will not talk out of my ass and simply link you to his reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/lri3vb/card_based_matchmaking_should_be_removed_from/

Tl:dr – CBM makes games laggy, pits people against each other over and over again, and is super unfriendly for casual players. It also helps deal with the problem of low card win farming.

Solution #2: Overhaul / Fix the token system

  • In the current sandbox, playing for 1 or 2 tokens every win (and only a win) to get weapons is ridiculously horrible for casual players and sweats alike. Say as an example – you are a casual player who just wants to try for one Trials weapon that weekend, no matter what weapon it is. You now have to win around 15-20 games against sweats who are 1 win farming and say a trials match takes around 10 minutes each… essentially you need to play an hour or two for ONE weapon. There is no other playlist in the game that is so unrewarding for the amount of time put in. We need to change the token requirement from 20 for a weapon to 10 in Trials due to bad game RNG design.
  • In addition to this all, you don’t keep tokens after a week – meaning that you eventually waste hundreds of tokens in the long run. Tokens that for some, were fought for with literal blood, sweat and tears. It is not fair to remove tokens from players after a given week as even a single token to many casual players is something very precious.

Solution #3: Make rewards for all matches no matter what

  • Considering that if you take everyone’s win rate and average it out, it will be 50% – that means that 50% of matches are a 100% time waste for most teams. Most of these lost matches are experienced by casual players who may play for an hour or two to only come out with one win. I can’t begin to describe how unrewarding that is, for a player to put in the effort to try for an hour or two and only get 1 or 2 tokens out of it. Make it so that no matter whether you win or not, there is always a chance for an extra token or two, or if really lucky, for an outright weapon or armor piece from your engram pool.

The counter argument is that teams will just afk or cliff jump for weapon farming – that is true but there are ways to incentivise against that. Some methods include:

  • Greatly increasing the chances for extra tokens or outright Trials weapons based on:

    • How much damage their team did to the opponent team
    • How long the match was
    • How long as it been since the current team had won any matches
  • What NOT to base the random weapon and extra token drop rates on:

    • Who wins (If so, then only very slightly)
    • How far someone is into their passage
  • The alternative solution that many people have pointed out is to simply increase the token gain per win but also allow tokens to be gained consistently for losses. Although this is a point of contention in the community, I will still include this hear for the sake of representing that side of the conversation.

Solution #4: Nerf / Buff / Overhaul parts of stasis

  • Here is a list…

    • Hunter shurikens need to do less damage – maybe freeze for longer but should only do 20 or 30 damage each
    • Titan behemoth super needs to have:
      • Super duration decreased (by 2 or 3 sec)
      • Make the smash not a 1 hit kill on enemies that are not frozen
      • Increase the effectiveness and vertical range of the ground slam to incentivise using it more instead of flying around with the shoulder charge
      • Lower the damage resistance
      • Make each shoulder charge in super cost more super energy than it does now so people can’t just fly across the map and back with the shoulder charges
    • Warlocks shadowbinder needs a way to break crystals in one motion similar to hunters shatterdiving or titans sliding
      • As I do not know too much about warlock issues, I will not talk out of my ass and send you all to this great post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/lpr7ig/a_warlock_explaining_why_a_lot_of_us_are/
    • Grenade changes:
      • Glacier grenade needs a further buff, maybe increase the radius of which it can freeze enemies but the radius of the shatter needs a significant reduction

Solution #5: Fix 3 peaking

  • They are currently looking into options for this issue.
  • No particular idea on how to fix it, I think its not exactly fair for us to suggest fixes – Bungie knows how to program and code the game and much of this fix relies on that.

Other Solutions to fixing Trials

Yes there are plenty of other solutions and takes in fixing Trials – I am sure that I have not covered all the nagging issues or community’s wanted changes; but I am trying to address what I see and hear as the most common and voiced our problems. I will link other posts under here to other options that I may fully or somewhat agree with.

Other takes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/lpzil0/this_week_of_trials_have_proven_that_the_gamemode/ (u/MyNameIsKorn)


(saywallahbruh)


(True Vanguard)

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/lpr7ig/a_warlock_explaining_why_a_lot_of_us_are/ (Grenader Jake)

Parting Words

Ultimately this whole list and explanation are for my own sake to clear up my own thoughts and opinions about the current Trials experience. There is good and bad to it, and obviously, it seems that Bungie is at least willing to put some sort of effort into improving this gamemode.

My vision is for a pvp gamemode that isn't too sweaty, is rewarding for all types of players who put in the effort, and one that is fun and enjoyable to play.

I won't be talking too much in the comments section, maybe a few replies here or there, but I mainly just want to create thoughtful and organized community conversation and bring the casual and sweatier side of the Trials population together.

If there is anything you disagree with in here, feel free to comment down below, I know I'm not perfect in what I say here and there are many flaws, but I try :/

Thank you for reading all of this!

Source: Original link


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