Destiny 2

Yes, 450 rpm auto rifles sorely need a buff, but a warning. The line between underpowered and overpowered in PvP is very thin.

destiny2 8 - Yes, 450 rpm auto rifles sorely need a buff, but a warning. The line between underpowered and overpowered in PvP is very thin.

Uldren quote withstanding, this is true.

Currently they are dealing less than the 28 crit 18 body displayed, which, on 6 resilence results in an 0.93 sec optimal ttk (6 crit 2 body) and a 1.47 sec body shot ttk (12 shots) because the actual damage is about 27.2 per crit and 17.2 per body.

And this is very weak and the worst of all auto rifles by a very large margin. But:

If the damage was exactly 28 crit 18 body it would be a 0.8 sec optimal ttk on 6 resilence or less (7 crit) and 1.33 sec body shot ttk. (11 shots) . The 8 shot 0.93 sec kill would be 5 crit 3 body on 7 resilence or less.

This is the buff that they need. Anymore and they will creep into being overpowered.

It's possible to just increase the crit damage instead, meaning 29 crit and 17.2 body, but that results in a 6 crit 1 body kill @0.8 sec on 5 resilience or less.

Considering the high stability and vertical recoil coupled with good range of 450's this could be a problem.

But that is the absolute maximum buff that could be reasonably applied without them being overpowered.

For example, if the damage went up to 29 crit 19 body it would be the 6 crit 1 body kill on 5 resilience or less, but, on 6 resilence or less it would be 4 crit 4 body for 0.93 sec (8 total shots) and 5 resilience or less the body shot ttk would be 1.2 sec over 10 shots.

That would certainly be overpowered.

Be careful what you wish for.


The other option is to increase base damage but decrease the precision damage multiplier so crit damage remains the same as it is now but body shot damage is increased.

If the body shot damage was 20 but the crit damage remained the same 27.2 ish it is now, it would still kill in 0.93 sec. But it would be 5 crit 3 body instead of 6 crit 2 body. The % of crits required for optimal ttk reduces.

(And body shot ttk would be 1.2 sec)


Either this or the previous slightly increased precision damage would be an adequate buff for this archetype to make it more viable in PvP.

Edit again:

The other possible fix is leaving damage for this archetype where it is now but increasing rate of fire slightly. If the rate of fire was increased so the optimal ttk was 0.87 sec, this archetype would become viable in PvP. It'd still be 6 crit 2 body but just faster. (0.06 sec faster to be exact)

I don't know what rpm increase would be needed to achieve this.

If somone is able to calculate this it would be much appreciated.

Addendum to all this:

In PvE auto rifles are in a bad spot DPS wise against red bar targets anyway. All auto rifles. Not just 450 rpm ones. All auto rifles could do with a PvE specific damage buff. Currently smg's deal about double the DPS that auto rifles do to red bars in pve. Smg's dont need to be nerfed. Auto rifles need to come up in DPS a bit. We know that bungie is capable of doing this as they have done it before.


There's three ways to fix precision frame auto rifles.

  1. Increase crit damage to at least 29 to achieve a 6 crit 1 body kill @0.8 sec. The old 0.93 sec optimal ttk would be 5 crits 3 body then.


  1. Increase body shot damage to 20 but leave crit damage the same as it is now, resulting in a 5 crit 3 body 0.93 sec kill. (More forgiving, same optimal ttk)


  1. Increase rpm to make the optimal ttk 0.87 sec but leave damage the same so it's still 6 crit 2 body.

And finally also all auto rifles need a PvE only damage buff.

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